Motor Block number 1985 Euro 16 Valve

[aluminum]

Whats the Block number for the 1985 Euro 16 Valve motor to check for the right motor in the car if anyone knows Has twin distributors on the drivers side next to each other
Thanks in Advance
What is the H.P. of that Year Motor ? is it 300 HP ?

[DougM]

84-86 S - 4-auto (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/22 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 150 6.7 15.5 3308
84-86 S - 5-man (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/21 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 155 6.2 15.2 3308

M28/22 for auto
M28/21 for manual
310hp, 295 ft.lbs

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by DougM

84-86 S - 4-auto (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/22 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 150 6.7 15.5 3308
84-86 S - 5-man (Euro) 4.7L-16v M28/21 310 295 10.4:1 LH-Jetronic 155 6.2 15.2 3308

M28/22 for auto
M28/21 for manual
310hp, 295 ft.lbs

*****
Great ! Now I can Identify for sure the Engine 84 through 86S M28/22 Auto Trans
So this is a non Interference Motor then with the exception of Carbon Build up It's possible to get some Damage like when a T. Belt Brakes
I Have Heard of these Engines as being Very Desirable . I also remember reading about the Dual Distributor but from 1 Distributor Body with the 2 Caps .

[DougM]

I would consider that motor an interference motor. My '84 Euro S blew the TB and I got lucky. On Rennlist, we came to the conclusion that earlier '84 Euro S models had some crossover parts and may be non interference. An '85 would more than likely be interference.
Picture of a twin dizzy motor

[stepson]

Originally Posted by DougM

I would consider that motor an interference motor. On Rennlist, we came to the conclusion that earlier '84 Euro S models had some crossover parts and may be non interference. An '85 would more than likely be interference.

I have always considered the '84-'86 M28/21-22 engines as interference even though in MY experience I had the harmonic balancer backwards, timed the cams thusly, and attempted to start the car (failed). No valves were bent. My vin is #1498.

I am also smarter than to attempt to duplicate this feat. No need to tempt fate IMO.

[aluminum]

Great Photo Doug : Thanks Much
Referencing a Interference Motor VS Non Interference Motor
Related to a 1985 Year Model with this Motor
What's your opinion or Knowledge of the Interference Issues related to damage .
This Car has a Broken Cam Gear Owner says but the Cam looks to be OK
MY Take on it is as Follows : However this is just a Guess not Fact Knowledge
(1) Perhaps ? Due to the Higher Lift on a 1985 Euro Camshaft the Motor becomes a Interference Motor
(2) Perhaps the Euro Pistons having higher Compression come up higher into the Combustion Chamber , Or the Combustion Chamber is smaller creating Higher Compression , Thus becomes a Interference Motor ?

If indeed the Motor Is Damaged Internally I expect their is no way to know the Damage until Tear Down Like Broken Block . Broken Head . Broken / Bent Valves .
For Example if a Valve Brakes off and gets caught in the Cylinder as the Piston comes up Major Damage could Happen including the Block Perhaps .

[Landseer]

Leak down test. After cam repair. Could be cam snout break. Not gear break.

Leakdown test done by somebody who knows what they are doing can determine if valves are bent.

Oil change right now, along with send away analysis, plus assessment of cut open filter could determine if engine is toast. Theoretical. Best course, buy it cheap, not confirming extent of issue, then plan for worst, hope for best
How is interior?

[Landseer]

You'd better have pretty deep pockets and/or some strong access to mechanical support, else you are looking at a heap of frustration.

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by aluminum

Great Photo Doug : Thanks Much
Referencing a Interference Motor VS Non Interference Motor
Related to a 1985 Year Model with this Motor
What's your opinion or Knowledge of the Interference Issues related to damage .
This Car has a Broken Cam Gear Owner says but the Cam looks to be OK
MY Take on it is as Follows : However this is just a Guess not Fact Knowledge
(1) Perhaps ? Due to the Higher Lift on a 1985 Euro Camshaft the Motor becomes a Interference Motor
(2) Perhaps the Euro Pistons having higher Compression come up higher into the Combustion Chamber , Or the Combustion Chamber is smaller creating Higher Compression , Thus becomes a Interference Motor ?

If indeed the Motor Is Damaged Internally I expect their is no way to know the Damage until Tear Down Like Broken Block . Broken Head . Broken / Bent Valves .
For Example if a Valve Brakes off and gets caught in the Cylinder as the Piston comes up Major Damage could Happen including the Block Perhaps .

It's not the cams.. I have euro cams in my '83 4.7 S motor, and it's definately non- interference with the higher lift cams.
-Kerry

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by XLR8928

It's not the cams.. I have euro cams in my '83 4.7 S motor, and it's definitely non- interference with the higher lift cams.
-Kerry

Hi Kerry Your in Pahrump Correct ?
( I have a House in Rancho area more or less off Decatur but am in my N. CA house now )
Any Old way yes it would be nice if the Motor was not ruined lol , I have decided to assume that it is damaged perhaps beyond repair and see if we can come to terms or not.
About your Euro Cam's they are not on Euro Heads are they ? perhaps they are not sure I remember something about them in a old post you had .
Personally I would have considered 78 or 79 Cam's for your car with more low end but still high lift almost the same as the Euro Cam's .
I am hoping to get this car and discover the motor is still able to be fixed ? humm
Not my first time around to fix a 928 Motor but rather my second lol.
for the Skeptic's I have rebuilt many many engines of all sorts Professionally without Issues . A Porsche Engine is different however I remember the 911 Motor I Built and dialing in the cam's was interesting I remember . Thanks for reply

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Landseer

Leak down test. After cam repair. Could be cam snout break. Not gear break.

Best course, buy it cheap, not confirming extent of issue, then plan for worst, hope for best
How is interior?

Seller tells me the Cam Gear is broken and the replacement Gear he ordered is in the Car.
He also Says the Cam is ok lol He Claims to be a Mechanic but you know how that go's when it comes to a 928 Mechanic and a " Just Mechanic " yes their is a difference .
Personally I think I am still learning the 928 but with some hands on .
I am going to call him this evening about the Car and try to talk money as if the car is Damaged perhaps much deeper then he is Knowledgeable of and try to enplane why.
Says interior is good and the Dash is good not cracked ? I find this great news but hard to believe
Related to your statement lol
" You'd better have pretty deep pockets and/or some strong access to mechanical support, else you are looking at a heap of frustration. "
For access to mechanical support I shall look in the mirror and the deep Pockets I have be Known to reach Deep when buying International Airline Tickets and Property's .
Car's I skimp on but have and drive them . My Only Regret and perhaps unfortunately
are the Photo albums of all the Car's I sold that I wish I still had .
Thanks much for your reply you have a lot of good points and great helpful information to share very generous to say the least . I like to know a 928 has a deserving owner !

[Landseer]

If only gear, the mechanic would have it running. Calling bs on "mechanic", as its a 30 min job to swap the cam gears. 45 min with beverage-in-hand.

[aluminum]

[QUOTE=Landseer;8256051]If only gear, the mechanic would have it running. Calling bs.[/QUOTE
I Doubt he knows how to Open up the front of it let alone how to line everything up and set the Belt . thinking Positive rather then Negative
The truth is in the Pudding .
Perhaps I well never see the car ? humm

[Landseer]

Its easy, both covers off, loosen the belt, install the gear, tighten the belt, start it.

Couple of 17mm wrenches, 10 mm socket.

Fact is, you don't even need a tension measuring device, honestly, though its recommended. ( I set them by feel all the time ). Its that easy.

Sounds like you are collecting your information, good beginning.

But to know its not the camshaft, instead is the gear... he already has the covers off.

You now know too much to get scammed, hopefully you can pick it up cheap and make it work.

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by aluminum

Hi Kerry Your in Pahrump Correct ?
( I have a House in Rancho area more or less off Decatur but am in my N. CA house now )
Any Old way yes it would be nice if the Motor was not ruined lol , I have decided to assume that it is damaged perhaps beyond repair and see if we can come to terms or not.
About your Euro Cam's they are not on Euro Heads are they ? perhaps they are not sure I remember something about them in a old post you had .
Personally I would have considered 78 or 79 Cam's for your car with more low end but still high lift almost the same as the Euro Cam's .
I am hoping to get this car and discover the motor is still able to be fixed ? humm
Not my first time around to fix a 928 Motor but rather my second lol.
for the Skeptic's I have rebuilt many many engines of all sorts Professionally without Issues . A Porsche Engine is different however I remember the 911 Motor I Built and dialing in the cam's was interesting I remember . Thanks for reply

Yes I'm in Pahrump (but only a little longer, moving to Salt Lake City area) My engine is a 4.7l S (us) with the smaller valves etc. The euro S cams have .472 (int) & .432 (exh) as opposed to the 78/79 cams .432/.400 , And yes, coupled with my custom exhaust, and more aggressive ignition timing,.. they do make a difference!
-K

[Pete R]

I'm with Landseer on this. Also, It's a combination of cam, larger valves and high comp piston that make it interference. I think it's mostly due to the pistons, there is almost no valve relief at all. When I was rebuilding my Euro I saw documentation somewhere that different pistons with different comp ratios were used in these "euros".

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Landseer

Its easy, both covers off, loosen the belt, install the gear, tighten the belt, start it.

Couple of 17mm wrenches, 10 mm socket.

Fact is, you don't even need a tension measuring device, honestly, though its recommended. ( I set them by feel all the time ). Its that easy.

Sounds like you are collecting your information, good beginning.

But to know its not the camshaft, instead is the gear... he already has the covers off.

You now know too much to get scammed, hopefully you can pick it up cheap and make it work.

Great Information Thanks :
Talked to the seller yesterday and my impression is that he pulled at least 1 timing cover
and he says the gear is Aluminum and Broken right in half !

So Far we are unable to come to terms . I explained to him about the interference engine Issues but seemed to fall on deaf Ears perhaps . Also mentioned the different Engines that come in that year Car and such .

Say's he got car from his landlord bla bla bla > My take on it is that perhaps he got the Car that way but he says he drove the car over to his " shop " and it ran fine , Transmission worked fine and such . Then upon starting the Car again is when it broke .
I Did ask if he took off the Valve Cover and inspected the Camshaft and he said NO !
This tells a story , However according to him the cosmetics are good , Dash is perfect , Seats are good , Windshield is good > so I am trying for the Car but at a realistic price
******
I also was thinking I could just do the Timing belt by Feel ! but I do have the Kemp Tool and have used it so far .
I will wait a few days and call him again > My Take on the Car is that as it is It's a parts Car that may need a Engine . I believe I have read the more common Engine US Type will not just go right in as it need a different wiring harness / Computers / MAF and perhaps more . So as a parts Car worth far less then with a Running Motor .
Thanks for the Reply

[Pete R]

Ask if you can pull the covers yourself. You need a 10mm socket and less time that it took to type that paragraph, It will end a lot of confusion.

[Danglerb]

Given so much is unknown, what is a realistic price?

Cam gears are aluminum, but they don't break without a reason.

Perfect dash has a lot of appeal, but if you can't keep it garaged, it might stay perfect a short time. Without a cheap price it needs expert eyes on it before guessing on reasonable price.

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

Given so much is unknown, what is a realistic price?

Cam gears are aluminum, but they don't break without a reason.

Perfect dash has a lot of appeal, but if you can't keep it garaged, it might stay perfect a short time. Without a cheap price it needs expert eyes on it before guessing on reasonable price.

That's not so Hard really . I always think escape route / what can you salvage it for ? what can you part it for . Car has 86 K if correct on the clock .
or course the car must be as described and I have not seen the car yet ( is a Long drive )
So far I have made a offer and it stands to date ,