951 standalone timing maps

sickwidit951 · 05-28-2007, 06:06 PM

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I posted here. I finally found the time to finish off my megasquirt conversion on my 944 turbo. I just took it for the first drive today and everything is working really well. I could use some input on how to setup my ignition timing table. Mine is working great for cruising around but I'm not sure how to tune it under boost and higher rpms. I plan to tune it on a dyno very soon but it would help a lot if I had a reasonable map to start with. My car is pretty much stock except for the MS, and I plan to run about 15psi until I get a new turbo (I'm running the k-26 #6 right now). Any input, especially full tables, would be greatly appreciated!

Best,
Bob

nynor · 05-28-2007, 07:50 PM

wow, strong work! pictures?

sickwidit951 · 05-28-2007, 08:07 PM

Thats what it looked like a few days ago. Since then I have finished the EDIS wiring, cleaned things up A LOT, and installed flex-braid over most of the exposed wiring. The piece of aluminum next to the cruise control is a ground plate. It's grounded to the engine and chassis and serves as a temporary common ground for all of the critical sensors and other components. Please no flames about the mess under the hood, it's still a work in progress. That pipe / filter setup is just a temporary replacement for the factory AFM / Airbox. I plan to come up with something better in the near future.

ae1969 · 05-29-2007, 11:52 AM

HOOOOORAY!!!

COngratulations on joining the club

I run MSII with EDIS.

I run a larger turbo but I have a stock ignition map as well on my other computer.

I will dig some up for you.

COngrats!!!

speedracing944 · speedracing944's Garage

Congrats on the MS.

ae1969 has some great cold start enrichment maps.

You should post this on the 944 forum as well. Hopefully more people turn to MS for the 951s.

I built (soldered and everything) a MS II system for my Vette LT1 swap in the 944. I can't wait the swap to be done so I can play with the MS.

Congrats once again.

Speedy

sickwidit951 · 05-30-2007, 12:57 PM

Thanks! and I too have been considering a v8 swap if I blow this thing up.

AE1969, that would be great! As soon as you can because I can't wait to let this thing loose!

I remember reading about MS-II in a Subaru magazine around this time last year and thinking "damn I need that." When I saw the price, I was sold. I bought the unassembled kit and soldered the whole thing.

It took a while to sort out the triggering but eventually I splurged on the Clewett Engineering kit and had a 36-1 wheel machined in place of the 60-2. Very pricey but good for peace of mind.

I'm hoping to get the ignition timing reasonable dialed in by this weekend because I can't wait to try this thing out on the autocross course. Heck, it's Wednesday so I might even go to the dragstrip later to do some tuning.

Best,
Bob

ae1969 · 05-30-2007, 07:50 PM

Russell had this on one of his maxtune demos.

Things that worked for me......

~10 degrees at idle and the surrounding cells

At cruising you can easily get away with 25-30 degrees.....

IF you were to do a dyno run......... lets say from 1500 rpm up... you would see a curve.

It would move from the 10 degree cells at 30-40kpa upto 20 degrees around 100kpa.... and quickly creep up as you develop full boost around 27-2900 rpm. At that point you want a bit of a dip in timing (~15 degrees) as you can see in the stock map....... once on full boost .......past 3500 rpm it goes up slightly......... 17,18,19 etc....... Now you can play with this to get faster spool and stronger pulls but I would play it safe for now.

Those are your critical values.

If you have a screen shot of your map I can point out what cells to watch out for..........

P.S I found megatune incredibly helpful in setting AFRs..........

P.S.S. In case you were wondering I am the president of the Megasquirt 951 club. JustinL is vice president ........and since you are third in line you are secretary/treasurer. Glad to see the organization is growing!

sickwidit951 · 05-31-2007, 08:03 PM

Thats what I have right now. I tried my best to translate the 951max table into megasquirt form. It turns out that I had forgotten to jumper the js10 to ign on the board so no SAW was getting to the EDIS module. The problem was pretty obvious when I hooked up my timing light to set the trigger offset.

I realized that even though we have different turbos, I can probably use the same settings as you off boost, which is what seems to need the most attention right now. Do you think you could post a screen shot of your ignition table?

I didn't set up any IAT retard ...I think that would be too may variables at the moment.

I ran a couple cycles of VE analyzer on my VE table. It's frustrating though because megatune likes to freeze my computer when the megasquirt is hooked up. Now I have AMC setup with mild EGO control so my fueling is pretty well refined albeit on the rich side under boost.

The next step is to strap this thing on a dyno and see what really needs to be done.

Thanks for everything!
Bob

JustinL · 06-01-2007, 08:48 AM

I've found that 4% ego works about right for me. Any more than that and the oscillations get a bit too high for my liking.

speedracing944 · speedracing944's Garage

So once I get mine up and running can I be appointed the Court Jester?

Speedy

JustinL · 06-01-2007, 09:13 AM

I'm staging a coup d'etat when I get my 944 n/a squirted...

But I'll need Alex's help so there may be a conflict of interest. Maybe he'll stay president after all.

sickwidit951 · 06-02-2007, 12:34 AM

I spent some more time on it and made some little changes. I'm only running 10psi right now so that top row isn't really coming into play. It actually felt stronger with about 5 degrees more advance across the board but I think thats just because my mixture is pretty rich. Under boost I was seeing low 10s under boost between 4k and 5k rpm. I'm trying to lean it out to a nice, conservative 11.5 or so before I spend some time on the dyno. It's really fun finding an open road and doing 3rd gear runs and making tweaks.a Very satisfying watching it come alive. I can only imagine how this thing is going to pull with a couple more psi, a 50 trim, and a 4" exhaust.

ae1969 · 06-02-2007, 07:37 AM

Nice job....... you are pretty much there. With an EGT and wideband you would be able to nail those WOT values and optimize your cruising cells....but overall the car should drive well.

Carefull on how much timing you feed it up top........ I run a similar timing curve with a bigger turbo so this curve should work fine. Some may find it slightly aggresive but it will be fine. What are you running for gas?

What are you idleing at? I am around 35-38 kpa at 950 rpm...

That 1300 rpm , 40 kpa cell at 11 degrees may cause minor oscillation.... You probably wont even feel it.........but a few months from now. Every little hiccup will be magnified. You will 'FEEL' every little change.

WHen you decide to shoot the boost up. You should set the upper rows as follows.
Lets say you want 200 kpa to be your max. I would set the second top row to 200 kpa and the upper to lets say 225kpa. With tapering timing values.... just as a little safety net in case you over shoot. I have overshot too many times setting my boost controllers.

Great job. I would drive with my laptop to work daily. Now I just drive. I miss tuning

I think I will go and change something on the car just so I can play again.

Congrats again.

Yours truly.

El Presidente

sickwidit951 · 06-05-2007, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the advice! I did notice the hiccup that you were talking about and set all the surrounding cells to 11 degrees, thats where it seems to feel the best.

I pulled some timing up top which allowed me to lean out the mixture into the mid 11s. It's funny how it seems to run fine with a lot more timing up top but it just loses some power; I have yet to hear any pinging under boost but it just feels sluggish with too much advance. I'm running 91 octane California gas. When I run it at the strip tomorrow I plan to mix in some 100.

I finally got my computer to stop freezing when megatune is open so I've been doing a lot more datalogging which has helped a lot with fine tuning the fueling.

The car now feels much stronger off boost! It actually pulls pretty well from 3000rpm up without any boost.

So here's what the new table looks like:

I studied some other maps to get a better understanding for how much to retard the timing as the boost increases.

ae1969 · 06-05-2007, 02:46 PM

I agree with your timing comments.

It is a fine line....... you will find that increasing timing you will improve response off boost more so than you would on boost.

On boost if power is what you are after then you are better off pulling timing back a couple of degrees and cranking up the boost..... but that little turbo is starting to get out of its range. EGTs become a problem when you pull back too much.......hence the tricky balance.

I like your timing curve. I see that you are finding a way to increase your spooling time. Pulling the timing right as its spooling up at 2300 rpm is a nice trick....(12.3) value. It is a nice way to get the heat up and spool up quicker.......

Have you done this before?

sickwidit951 · 06-14-2007, 12:22 PM

Update: Last night I took it to the dragstrip to datalog some runs and see how things are doing. I was hoping for a mid 15 running my 10psi setting (timeslip says it was 99 degrees). Very first run I pulled a 14.9 at 97 mph. Thats very close to my best ever trap-speed running 15psi with Autothority chips. AFR's were SOLID at almost exactly 11.5 the whole way ...the datalog is a work of art. So I decided to turn up the boost a tiny bit.

On my second run I decided to do a more agressive start and ended up pedaling the tires like a maniac and almost missing the shift into second. I was amazed when I got my timeslip and it said 14.1 at 101mph! My best ever with the Autothority chips was 14.5 at 97 and this was only my second ever run on the megasquirt. My 60 foot was a 2.4 but I've managed a 2.2 before so I know this thing can do 13s. This is a 100% stock car except for megasquirt, suspension, and a cone filter.

I didn't do any more runs because the oil pressure started doing really funny things in the staging lane. Everyone says its the gauge but better safe than sorry.

I'll try to pull up a screen shot of the datalog from my first run, it's pretty fun to see. I didn't log my second run because I didn't have a whole lot of time after my first and I wanted to focus on my driving.

Bes,
Bob

nize · nize's Garage

nice! videos?

sickwidit951 · 06-14-2007, 04:59 PM

Here's the datalog. I don't have a video but if I go next week I will try to get one. I might even have my 4inch exhaust by then ...it will be hard not to run 13s with that thing!

ae1969 · 06-14-2007, 05:16 PM

Nice job! Strong trap speed.

Are you noticing any odd things in the ignition side.

I see a few subtle bumps on the rpm log.

I had ignition noice that became evident as I pushed the boost up. It was not apparent at 11-13 psi..... but as I pushed passed 15 psi........ I began snuffing out the spark...........
I switched to resistored plugs now and running a gap of 26-28 thou.

sickwidit951 · 06-15-2007, 01:45 PM

I'm running resistor plugs right now. I zoomed in on the log and I see what you mean. There are no peaks or dips in the rpm log but there are spots where the slope decreases or increases a little. I might try to raise to the lag factor to see if I can catch something. One thing the log tells me is that my tach is reading a little bit low. I was letting off the gas to shift right before the orange section of the tach, and you can see that in the datalog the TP stays 100% all the way to 6700rpms (yikes, I definitely didn't mean to spin this thing that high, especially not in a drag race). The tach is still driven by the DME so I may try switching it over to the EDIS tach output.

My new exhaust is on back order and I'm impatient so I might order a new turbo to keep me entertained in the meantime.