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-   -   My rebuilt engine won't start.... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-944-turbo-turbo-s/800894-my-rebuilt-engine-wont-start.html)

pjo046 03-14-2014 02:36 PM

The rotor can only be installed one way on the camshaft.

Commdiver: I agree that it seems unlikely that hard components that worked prior to the rebuild should have failed during storage. For instance the coil, fuel pump, afm etcetera. However the injectors are not the same that was on the engine before the rebuild. It is a used set that has been cleaned and flow tested by Witch Hunter, whereafter they have never been put to use but stored untill I bought them, and now put them to use. I have heard that injectors that have been cleaned can stick if they aren't used soon after cleaning. Which is the case here. It's probably two to three years since they were cleaned and tested.

So I have some faith in them being the culprit, and I well check this early next week when I get back home.

The flywheel sensors have been gap'ed correctly.

There is one issue I have been thinking about today. I have used an offset camshaft key. Thus I have advanced the camshaft timing by four degrees. Will that affect the ignition timing?

I will also double check my cam timing as suggested.

pjo046 03-14-2014 03:33 PM

Nevermind the question. The offset keyway of course only moves the camshaft. The protruding part of the keyway is in the same place both for the camshaft sprocket and for the hex-bolt that the ignition rotor attaches to.

pjo046 03-17-2014 03:17 AM

Now I just verified cam timing is spot on. Phew.

pjo046 03-17-2014 06:30 AM

Today I have used a small battery to apply 9V to the injectors in short burst. They all clicked, and all sounded the same. I did around 30-40 passes on each, to try to free them up IF they are sticking. If they were totally stuck, they shouldn't have made a sound right?

I have also managed to pressurize the intake system. Used a paint bottle cap which was the right size for the turbo to IC-pipe hose. I pressurized the system with 14 psi. That way I found a few leaks: The silicone coupler on the throttle body, the banjo bolt on the IC-pipe (for the wastegate signal line), banjo bolt with 4 outlets on the intake manifold, and the ICV. I also found that blue check valve going to the heater control system was installed the wrong way. I fixed this, and all leaks except the ICV. But the leak here wasn't very big.

After this, I tried starting the car once more. It still wouldn't start. It got a bit closer than before though. I managed to get it to run for a second or two several times, much more often than before I fixed the air-leaks.

The next step I did, was remove the spark plugs and perform a compression test. So with a cold engine, where the piston rings haven't yet seated, I got the following numbers:

Cyl 1: 160 psi, Cyl 2: 165 psi, Cyl 3: 160 psi, Cyl 4: 160 psi.

Is this ok?

I have put the battery on charge, and later today I will clean the spark plugs, put them back in, buy some petrol, and "water remover" (Not sure of the english term). Then I will try to start once more with a fully charged battery, clean plugs and fresh petrol. If that doesn't do the trick, I am not sure where to look next..?

I have ordered a noid light off ebay, so once this arrives (Hopefully within one week), I will check/verify proper signals to the injectors.

pjo046 03-17-2014 12:33 PM

Cleaning the plugs and recharging the battery didn't help...

ilikemy944 03-17-2014 12:40 PM

Do you have the stock chip to test?
I would start there with stock FPR.

ilikemy944 03-17-2014 12:45 PM

If that didn't get you anywhere, I would start looking at the wiring to the AFM next.

pjo046 03-17-2014 01:12 PM

Thank you for the suggestions! Guess I will try the "stock" chip tomorrow. My car was already chip'ed when I bought it, so I don't have a stock chip to put in. But I will put in the known working tuning chip that was in the DME before I installed the A-tune. And also reinstall the stock 2.5 bar FPR.

Any ideas as to how to test the AFM-wiring?

Another thought: I installed the reference and speed sensors before putting the engine back in (Made possible by cutting out some material on the bellhousing so that the sensor bracket could be mounted to the block before mating the block to the bellhousing). I made sure the clearances were correct, and tightened the bracket mounting bolt to spec. However, when putting the engine back in we struggled quite a bit to get it mounted to the bellhousing properly. Thus we might have bumped into the sensor bracket and thus forced it out of position, altering the sensor gap.

IF the sensor gap has been altered during installation, how would this affect the engine's performance? I have read many places that it is important to get the gap correct. But then I have also read some places that it isn't that important. The sensors either send a signal or they don't, and the main important thing is not to get the sensors too close to the flywheel and thus have the flywheel tearing into the sensors. Which is true? Will a different gap than specified give a different ignition timing?

ilikemy944 03-17-2014 01:18 PM

It shouldn't necessarily give you different timing but it may give intermittent readings if it is too far away. However if you are getting obvious spark and if your tach is bouncing while cranking then I doubt that is your issue.

pjo046 03-17-2014 01:26 PM

Yes, I am getting obvius spark, and my tach is moving while cranking. Then I guess I will wait with regap'ing the sensors untill I have tried a few other things (Like stock chip and FPR, testing the wiring harness, etc)

ilikemy944 03-17-2014 01:30 PM

If you wanted to try regapping the sensors, it certainly won't hurt and shouldn't take too long.
Check out Clarks Garage article on setting the gap. Simple as temporarily gluing a washer to one of the sensors to find the gap, then knocking the washer off the sensor.

Near the bottom of this page:
Speed and Reference Sensors - Checking, Replacement, and Adjustment

pjo046 03-19-2014 02:58 PM

Today I fixed the ICV with the help of JB Weld. Will install it again tomorrow, and check for any other vacuum leaks.

Furthermore I checked the AFM today while connected to the harness. It performs as it should, the signal from the DME to the AFM is as it should, and continuity is good on all wires going from the DME to the AFM.

I also checked the wiring going from DME/KLR to the injectors. Also here the continuity is good/resistance is low. The injectors get 12V on the contact coming from pin 6 on the KLR, and the other contacts (Coming from pin 14 and 15 on the DME) get 10.2V when the ignition is on.
Once I receive the noid lights I have bought, I will also check that the signals from the DME are correct (Switch to ground to fire the injectors)

I also checked the wiring to the MAP sensor today, and it was as it should be.

The last thing I had time to do today was tightening the nuts holding the exhaust manifold to the head. Had a leak from all the gaskets the other day when I tried starting the engine. Hopefully the leak will now be gone.

Next time I have available time for troubleshooting the no start condition, I will concentrate on the flywheel sensors to make sure they are ok in every way. I will then install the stock chip and check to see wether that makes any difference or not. And also double check the wiring goint to the coil, and check the gap on the spark plugs.

Any other ideas as to what should be the next thing on the list?

Techno Duck 03-19-2014 05:35 PM

You said fuel was found in the cylinders previously and your fuel pressure was not holding. What ever came of that?

pjo046 03-19-2014 09:43 PM

I am going to perform a fuel system leakdown test as per the instructions on clark's garage to adress that. But I need to get hold of a fuel pressure gauge once more before I can do that..

Rokket 03-20-2014 07:25 PM

Defective Fuel Pressure Regulator
 
Assuming that your cam timing is correct, this is most likely a defective fuel pressure regulator. I had this happen to me at Sebring & it drove me nuts. Easy Test is to pull vacuum line of regulator or damper & use a mity Vac (or suck on it..kind of nasty) if you get fuel out of the vac port the diaphragm is defective. Look at #4 intake runner in relation to the Vac lines to the regulator.

Rokket 03-20-2014 07:30 PM

I've been working on these for 20+ years...this is a 90% chance of defective Fuel Pressure regulator. The pressure should run up to about 3.0 bar and hold steady for quite some time (20+ minutes with minimal pressured drop) It probably runs great at wide open throttle? Chugs at lower RPM?

ilikemy944 03-21-2014 04:45 AM

^^ This is great to check.

Also, what do you mean you fixed the ISV with JB Weld?

pjo046 03-21-2014 07:25 AM

The idle control valve (ICV) was leaking air between it's housing cover and main body. I sealed the jointing overlap/mating surfaces with JB Weld. The valve is operating as it should, but had a vacuum leak which I have now sorted. Both the fuel pressure regulator and fuel damper are brand new. But I will check them for leaks anyway. :-)

pjo046 03-21-2014 07:27 AM

However I now believe the problem might be my A-tune chip. My chip is actually meant for a car with altitude correction. Something my car doesn't have... I have contacted Joshua at Rogue Tuning about it, but haven't heard back from him yet.

ilikemy944 03-21-2014 08:34 AM

Have you tried the other chip yet?


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