Starion INtercooler on a 951 . could be done??

migue_951 · 02-26-2003, 04:32 AM

Well as you guys from anywhere in the world have noticed our stock intercooler and I mean the big heavy aluminum intercooler below the front nose of every single 944 turbo doesn't have a good air circulation, Not even with the vented nose panel. Last day I was searching on the net and found outa few intercooler upgrades fir our street machines but unfortunately they vary from $1,000 - 1500 dollars for a simple kit.
Well the solution maybe I found out that most of the kits sold on the websites are merely equal in measure 24" x 8" x 3.5" but lucky for you guys there is an intercoller from a starion turbo that measures 21 1/2" Wide x 8" Tall x 2 3/4" Deep you see it is even more easy to fit to our cars and you can buy them at ebay for about $150 take it to a mufler shop and they will do the rest as I am doing this week I will try to post images of the installation on my 951
The photos are for the kits and the starion intercooler its just for you guys to compare the similarity.

Lawrence Coppari · 06:22 AM

Careful here....heat exchangers, which this is, are highly dependent on surface area. The new one seems to have less area than the old one has. I would look into this a bit more before I made a switch.

The thickness of the stock aluminum exchanger is really not a factor. At the risk of getting too technical, the resistance of heat flow through a small thickness of aluminum is negligible when compared to the external film coefficient. If you divide the thermal conductivity by the wall thickness, it is directly comparable to a film coefficient. Aluminum has a conductivity of about 120 Btu/hr-ft-F. Divide this by a thickness of 1/8 inch (expressed in feet) and you get a number of 11520. The external film coefficient is only about 5. This implies that the resistance of the 1/8 of aluminum is negligible when it comes to steady state heat flow. Heat flow is like a chain; it is only as good as its weakest link. You have three links. They are internal film coefficient, conductivity through aluminum, and external film coefficient. Due to pressure, internal film coefficient is higher so it is not the weak link here. In general to compute heat flow, you combine reciprocals of all three links to get the resistance to heat flow. Arithmetically, you can see what happens then.

In general, when you have low coefficients, you need high surface area. You need to compare surface areas.

Roastin944 · 02-27-2003, 07:31 AM

Hell yah, this is what i like, making something fit! its ridiculous to just toss 1500 bucks out for a front mount made for a 944. Id rather bust my ass to figure out how to fit a different intercooler. The Starion is an awesome intercooler! A great upgrade for alot of cars. But like Lawrence said, you have to figure out if it will actually be better, if you understand what he was saying! I have to hand it to you lawrence, your pretty sharp! But overall i believe that the starion will be better and cool better since it will sit lower in the front end and get more air to it.

-John

944freak · 02-27-2003, 07:38 AM

But it will get a lot much more air at the front end of the car. Might be close?????

Lawrence Coppari · 02-27-2003, 09:09 AM

I work for a large chemical company. I used to design heat exchangers once upon a time. What I said is just standard mechanical engineering textbook stuff. Any mechanical engineer in the heat transfer arena would know about it.

I'm not saying it would not be better; I'm saying you need to check it out before dropping a bunch of bucks.

migue_951 · 02-27-2003, 09:43 AM

HI there as I said this is because I am studying mechanical engineer I am only 18 years old and please try to accept that porsche designed this intercooler heat exchanger almost 20 years ago a lot HAVE CHANGE ok

rammstein · 02-27-2003, 10:27 AM

If you do it, let us know the results. BTW- how could the difference between the two be measured in an effective way? Dyno tests would be useless unless it was a dyno in a wind tunnel, correct?

Roastin944 · 02-27-2003, 05:39 PM

Lawrence, sounds interesting, that is what im leaning towards when i head off for college next year is a mechanical engineer. How many years did you go to college, what do you do now?

Oh yah....Go for it man! it will be cool to say you did it right.

-John

migue_951 · 02-28-2003, 04:28 AM

Well guys I know this is going to be a very good upgrade for 951.

Well as I said I was studying mechanical engineer here in Puerto Rico , well I took both intercoolers to my machine laboratory there is a machine that measures the amount of air that could pass troug anything in a certain amount of time and guess what the starion intercooler flowed 500 cfm per minute more that our stock intercooler in one minute of flow at 6 psi.
Good news for us !!!!

Tomorow I will take them again to the metalurgy lab to do test on
the heat exchanger area
stay tune for next updates ....

Lawrence Coppari · 02-28-2003, 04:32 AM

I spent 9 years in college.

University of Virginia BME 5 years due to ROTC program
University of Virginia MMe 2 years
Virginia Polytechnic Institue 2.5 years PhD Mechanical Engineering, specialty - conduction heat transfer.

I work for Eastman Chemicals. We used to be a subsidiary of Kodak. We make chemicals, plastics, and fibers. What I do for a living is figure out how fast and how much heat moves through solids. This is very important in the chemical industry.

Lawrence Coppari · 02-28-2003, 04:52 AM

migue, is there any way you can check input and output temperatures? A higher flow at a higher exit temperature might not be too much help.

migue_951 · 02-28-2003, 05:48 AM

I don't have acces to use instruments like termometers I am doing this with my fellows they are doing me a favor even though I will ask

migue_951 · 02-28-2003, 05:49 AM

And by the way my name is Orlando

Lawrence Coppari · 02-28-2003, 06:19 AM

Orlando, it sure has a big air flow. This might be really interesting. Off for weekend.

Lawrence

todd951 · 02-28-2003, 07:53 PM

Lawrence, it took you 7 years to come to your senses and go to a real engineering school?

Quote:

Originally posted by Lawrence Coppari
I spent 9 years in college.

University of Virginia BME 5 years due to ROTC program
University of Virginia MMe 2 years
Virginia Polytechnic Institue 2.5 years PhD Mechanical Engineering, specialty - conduction heat transfer.

I work for Eastman Chemicals. We used to be a subsidiary of Kodak. We make chemicals, plastics, and fibers. What I do for a living is figure out how fast and how much heat moves through solids. This is very important in the chemical industry.

944freak · 03-12-2003, 04:22 PM

Any news???

VertigoGTI · 03-13-2003, 05:29 AM

Watch out for Starion I/Cs. They are notorious for leaking at anything over 9PSI. A friend of mine was selling one and before I bought it, I asked if I could run a test on it to check leaks. Through a simulated air pressurizer and colored smoke (from a fog machine) it turned out that his had 3 leaks in it. 2 by the endtanks and 1 in the core.

The 2 on the endtanks I can deal with, but the core? No thanks. Not when it was pressured for 8PSI and with me wanting to run 1 bar on my GTI.