964 transmission into split screen bus

[duke of boots]

Hi All

I am new to this forum and live in the UK. 4 years ago a purchased a 1966 splitty with no running gear and had the great idea to dump a 911 lump into it. I was lucky enough to find P911GUY (Paul) on this forum and 2 months later he had shipped over a 1966 2.0L engine and 501 box. The thing is that it seems that the 911 engine thing is being done quite a lot so i thought 'if you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly' and so the idea of an AWD splitty was born.

So the question i guess is how much of the 964 transmission do i need ? I get that i need the g64 box, front trans, drive shafts, torque tube and gear shift BUT is there any computer stuff that is involved or are the early systems all relatively simple?

john

[porterdog]

The 964 C4 setup is mechanically split 63r/37f, so if you can live with that then no computer bits are required. In an actual C4 installation there are computer-controlled hydraulic actuators for both the center and rear differentials- these, along with the ABS computer, sensors, and a pair of accelerometers, form the basis of the C4s PDAS (essentially stability control).

I know of 964 C4 based race cars that deactivate this system; some of them had manual knobs to control the bias at the diffs; if you were going to go without all the electronic stuff you could try that.

hth!

ETA: That's a killer project- best of luck!

[Bill Verburg]

or you could just use the 993 system which is a much simpler purely mechanical setup

[duke of boots]

Bill, the 993 system sounds like a good option can you tell me about it please?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by duke of boots

Bill, the 993 system sounds like a good option can you tell me about it please?

Not much to tell, the 964 AWD g64 trans is unique to the 964, the 993 AWD trans is pretty much the same as the 2wd versions just using a special nose piece and trans mount w/ a viscous coupling bolted to the forward end of the trans out put shaft, the rear end is the same as a 2wd version. This setup has been continued on the 996 & 997 w/ some electronic bells and whistles added. the 993 awd is ~45# lighter than 964 awd mechanism and is purely mechanical in action, the viscous coupling responding to temp rise due to differing in/out speeds

I don't know how it would all fit or come together in a bus but just get the entire drive train from a 993 C4, the only electronics are the normal Motronic engine management w/o any of the extra electronics used in the 964 awd

[duke of boots]

can anyone tell me if the front trans is interchangeable between a 993 and 964? Are there any other parts that are interchangeable in the drive train? Its hard finding everything from a 964 or everything from a 993 in the UK.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by duke of boots

can anyone tell me if the front trans is interchangeable between a 993 and 964? Are there any other parts that are interchangeable in the drive train? Its hard finding everything from a 964 or everything from a 993 in the UK.

Sure, a 993 trans can be mated to a 964 engine and vice versa.

a 993 g50 can be swapped into a 964 g50's role

a 964 g50 can be swapped into a 993 g50's role


A 993 g50 or g64 trans is a very close relative of a 964 g50 trans differing mainly in the # of gears but all of these are very different animal from a 964 g64.

It appears that a 993 g64 could be used to replace a 964 g64 as the torque tube and front diff are all the same parts,, never heard of it being done though

[duke of boots]

thanks Bill. To clarify then, the g50 box is fitted to both the 993 and 946 in the 4x4 variant. The G64 is used in the 964 in the 4x4 variant but is completely different to the g50. So should i use the g50 or g64 box based on your experience.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by duke of boots

thanks Bill. To clarify then, the g50 box is fitted to both the 993 and 946 in the 4x4 variant. The G64 is used in the 964 in the 4x4 variant but is completely different to the g50. So should i use the g50 or g64 box based on your experience.

No!
G64 are fitted in AWD variants, G50 in 2wd

993 G50 6 speed & G64 speed & 964G50 5 speed are all closely related transmissions and are swappable w/o too much issue, To use the AWD G64 in a 2wd car the nose cone is swapped out to a 2wd version and vice versa

The 964 5 speed AWD trans is a oner, there is nothing else like it and few if any parts are related to the G50 series,

As I said, I believe that it is possible to replace a 964 g64 w/ a 993 G64 because the front diff and torque tube are the same in both 964 and 993.

[duke of boots]

Got it, thanks for the patience over that one! G64 is the only option then but i can use 993 OR 964 running gear.

[duke of boots]

does anyone know if the g64 trans will bolt onto the 1966 911 2.0 130ps engine ? I found this online and from the dimensions it would suggest it will?????

http://www.kitcarclub.nl/mkportal/modules/gallery/album/a_458.jpg

[indasevens]

A little off topic....how much HP and torque will the g64 trans and front stuff hold???

thanks

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

No!
G64 are fitted in AWD variants, G50 in 2wd

993 G50 6 speed & G64 speed & 964G50 5 speed are all closely related transmissions and are swappable w/o too much issue, To use the AWD G64 in a 2wd car the nose cone is swapped out to a 2wd version and vice versa

The 964 5 speed AWD trans is a oner, there is nothing else like it and few if any parts are related to the G50 series,

As I said, I believe that it is possible to replace a 964 g64 w/ a 993 G64 because the front diff and torque tube are the same in both 964 and 993.

Bill
I might be wrong but I think the torque tubes are different 993 to 964. The 993 shaft is about half the diameter of the 964.

[duke of boots]

thats good news as i have opted for the 964 torque tube and shaft. The interesting part will be the extension of it so it reaches !

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Bill
I might be wrong but I think the torque tubes are different 993 to 964. The 993 shaft is about half the diameter of the 964.

You have taken more of these apart than I have, so I bow to your expertise, I just went by the part #s, both use 964 part #s for the torque tube and front diff

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

You have taken more of these apart than I have, so I bow to your expertise, I just went by the part #s, both use 964 part #s for the torque tube and front diff

Now I'm baffled. I trust your your research more than I do my memory. I'll take one apart and let you know.

[duke of boots]

Should fit!

[duke of boots]

started laying out the chassis today'. will have to have bespoke drive shafts made as the 996 suspension units will have to be positioned closer to the 964 than the original drive shafts will allow.

[Esel Mann]

Duke,

Your project is fascinating! The VW buses are pretty neat. I'm looking for a camper type with all the accoutrements. Pull this C4 mod off and I'm not sure what I will then do. Hard to find the camper types in FLA with solid bodies. There have been buses where they stuck Porsche engines in them. I recall one where it was even tracked!

Putting an AWD assembly in there would make it almost like a mini-MOG!
Very nice, very ballsy

Please do keep us in the loop as to your progress!

[DW SD]

WOW! Cool project. I have a great deal on a new clutch kit that should work for you. Not sure about shipping to UK, though.

FS: NEW Turbo (965) Aluminum Sachs pressure plate, G50 race clutch and T/O Bearing

Doug