Exhaust system recomendations.
 

I need some advice on a replacement for my current B&B exhaust system. ( 1996 C2 3.6 )

I love the sound of the B&B, but the system is not fitting the way it should ( probably because it was put on several years ago and the system was quite new then) but, I would like a much cleaner, neat fitting system.

I guess my order of preferences would be ... HP, fit and finish, and than sound, but like I said the B&B is very taste-T.

Basic Options that seem popular
1) Stock Mufflers - Cat Bypass
2) Fabspeed Supercup Mufflers (pipes) - OEM Cats

You can find both options often in the Pelican or Rennlist classifieds.

I hear GHL makes a very nice system, $$$. You could also go with 993 heat exchangers with the flanges flipped around and either a M&K muffler (no cat), or use a flowmaster/dynomax/magnaflow 2 in 2 out muffler with some custom tubing (again no cat). If you decide to go with stock 964 exhaust parts with bypass. I have them for sale!

Sorry, just noticed you have a 993 and not a 964. Either GHL, or use the stock HE's with a nice custom muffler setup or M&K makes one that will bolt right up (no cat).

Could you maybe explain how the B&B is fitting incorrectly. I am looking @ possibly going this way, but would love to avoid any problems.

I researched exhaust and found that it wasn't worth the hassle in terms of hp. Cat bypasses are out of the question for me, as I want to keep it legal. My mufflers have had some baffle surgery by SCARGO when the car was fairly new. It helps on the exhaust note - its perfect. So, why not go back to stock with a bit of baffle mod? It sure would pay for itself if you sell the B&B.

George

It's not 100% clear what you have now.
there are 3 main sections of the exhaust which can be modified independatly of each other.
heat exchnger or header
cat or cat bypass

Her's a 100% stock 993 exhaust
mufflershttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199640084.jpg

What parts are B&B?

The left side tail pipe welds are off. So to get the tip to not touch the body work, I have to tweak it and you can tell that there is something wrong with it when looking from the rear. The right side fits perfect. (see pic.) The picture of the left is what it looks like if I don't re-position it. It looks off even after I loosen the bolts and move it to the right.

I'm sure that the new systems from B&B are much better now. This was one of the first ones they did.

I may just take the muffler off and re-fab it, so the tailpipe exits the rear like the right side.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199640435.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199640466.jpg

Does the muffler exit have the correct biscuit joints? There were 2 manufacturers of oem mufflers Gillette and Bischof

the left 2 mufflers are Gillett, they have the biscuit integral w/ the pipe exit. The right 2 are Bischof. , they have an expanded section which a separate biscuit fits into
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199641485.jpg

Bischof biscuit and clamp
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199641721.jpg

The clamps are the same for both different set ups. The tips are adjusted by losening the clamp and rotating the tip to suit.

The system is like the ones on the right. My mechanic and I went over it for a while and came to the conclusion that the left muffler was just welded poorly. We compared it to the right side and the measurements were way off. I'm now actually wondering if I could just buy a new left muffler from B&B, although I'm pretty sure the tips are fabricated to match each set. In which case it would look lame to have a brand new tip on the left, and the old on the right.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199644454.jpg

From the pics it appears that the mufflers do not hav ethe adjustable biscuit joint. So you would either need a new muffler or reweld the existing one.

I think you are right.
Thanks.

I used to have the B&B on my 993 (installed by the previous owner) and switched back to stock (Motorsound) mufflers / big ovals. The fit is perfect, the sound is what Porsche intended and in terms of HP, I have not noticed a decrease from the B&B. Bottom line, I could not be happier.

RSR Mufflers by Robin at www.p-car.com

I have a friend who has this muffler on his 993 and it sounded great...

Thanks for the info/link.

Why not just nix the B&B's and put on the Fabspeed Supercup's, nice and clean and they look like they fit much better. Anyone have these? Comments.:)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201065370.jpg

It'll be pretty loud

I had the Fabspeed Supercups with OEM cat. They sounded awesome, but just a little too loud for my neighborhood.

Loud is fine. They look like it should be easy to install. I don't have a rack, but loads of jack stands and floor jacks. Anyone done it while on their back?

Has anyone fitted the aluminum bumper heat shield exhaust thing from a WB to NB C2? Some guy on Rennlist has made it work, but...

Where does one order this part? I'm going to have to fab it. Anyone interested in this for there NB 993?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1201582471.jpg

Installed the Fabspeed Supercups this morning. Wow, they are loud. The fit and finish is great. Much better then the old B&B's. Looks much better also. :cool: My neighbors are going to loooovvve me. ;)

Thanks everyone for your input/advice.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202163018.jpg

Has anyone tried running only cat + straight pipes ? Is it totally too loud. Could you maby add supertraps after cat?

Soundclips?

I just had a set of Fister Stage III Mufflers made for my 96. It's just a cat-back mod, but they sound great!! They don't have the ear popping resonance that my friends Super Cups have when you're just cruising. Darin Fister also makes a quieter version (stage II). he basically takes your mufflers and swaps them out for modified ones. He made me a real nice set of satin black powder coated tips too.

here's his site... some good vids.

http://www.fdmotorsports.net/

You mean like this?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1242934532.jpg

Just like that... I think thats a bit too loud to me afterall...

Wow. this is funny. I just came across this post and was interested. Duh... I started it. :D

Here is a very short video of the first start up after the install. By far the most complemented addition I have made to the car. Fabspeed Supercup's sound great!

"loud pipes save lives" :)

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i185.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid185.photobucket.com/albums/x61/96740/Videos/MOV05680.flv">

Not for the faint hearted thats for sure :D

But they're great for the track and come with the extension pipes to get back to the muffs for street use.

I can't express how good these sound. It really creates a whole new monster that turns heads. It may not be your cup of tea, but the sound is pure pleasure. :) I'll try and get some better video sound clips. Not to mention what I feel as a smoother power band.

I have DACH X-pipes (without cats, I don't have to have a sniff-test here in my county) and DACH-R (modified, 'gutted' ala "RSR" mufflers). GLORIOUS sound, an old-school air cooled tech at the local Porsche dealer says my car is the best street 993 he's ever heard, although he hasn't heard Chris's without the mufflers.
Have OEM Motorsound tips, I like these the best for this car of any I've seen, everyone's opinion differs on visual appearance but DACH rooooolz............ ;-)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1243698620.jpg

See if you can get a video sound bite. I'd love to hear it.

This is extremely close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDzXoHYtOg0

Same DACH pipes, RSR mufflers and DACH-R are very close. When I get a sound clip of my own I'll post it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5baipiffR4M

This one is actually been the money clip :D

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5baipiffR4M&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5baipiffR4M&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I'm glad you're liking 'em Coz!

This is with stock cats.....


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4TpVBEouwY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4TpVBEouwY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

here is a full header setup w/ aftermarket cats and mufflers
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1261058415.jpg

and here is an aftermarket cat by pass w/ stock mufflers
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1261058692.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1261058708.jpg

Wow that looks wicked. Can you get a video clip?

Bill what, who's headers are those?

Thanks

Cargraphic

If you decide to change out the Super Cups for whatever...
 

reason, I would consider the FDMotorsports mufflers, Stage I, II and III. I have the Stage III and love them...I have had in the past:
1. B&B, hated them for their resonance,
2. Robin Sun's RSRs, very nice,
3. Porsche OEM motor sound package muffs, too mellow,
4. Fab Speed Super Cups, will raise the dead, sound incredible
5. RSRs with Fab Speed cat bypass, these too will raise the dead (That can be a good thing)...they are not too loud until you put your foot into it,
6. FD Motorsports Stage III with Stock Cats, my favorites, made from stock Porsche muffs, and modified.,

My 964 has only one notch on the bumper, what do you guys suggest?