Buying track car preliminary thoughts

[Don Plumley]

Okay - my 87 has an offer so it's time to get more serious about buying a track car.

To restate my goals from this thread, I need a car for DE's and TT's so I can build seat time over the next couple of years. No specific plans to race, so class, etc. not important at this time.

The car should be safe, fun, and reasonably capable. I will happily collect rock chips, dings and wear. I will drive it to/from the track, but not much more than that. It will be a Porsche - I'm not in it just for time on the track, but for time on the track piloting a 911. It won't be a Kart, an EVO, a Miata, etc. (that's not a slam against another man's passion, your children are very beautiful and smart - just my perspective)

Buying someone else's track car is of course the best bang for the buck. dtfastbear has given me a couple of leads already - wow. On the same token, I like to work on the car, so doing some lightening, minor stuff is fun for me too. But I won't be building race suspension, new motor, etc. Light is good, but I won't be an addict at this point.

I'll set a budget of about $25K. For the right reasons, it could be more, but given the on-going expenses (tires, pads, track), there's no need to buy up. Less is okay too.

My thoughts are this:

a) As Tyson recommended (below), 92-94 C2 w/Salvage title. I figure $10-18K for the car, leaving me $7-10K to lighten it, cage, seats. C2 has good brakes, reasonable suspension, good engine and tranny. A solid base. And would be okay to drive to/from track, would be a bit of a sleeper (I like that). I'd be headed strongly towards an RSA dimension.

b) Someone's track beast. They come up all the time, I'm pondering a 70 non-sunroof chassis with 993 motor, full race suspension, big reds, full cage, carbon fiber body parts, etc., etc. Ready to race, just add gas. Negatives are it is very showy for a novice driver, would eat my budget (and then some). I like the RS/Longhood look, but it's not an essential/focus for me.

c) Salvage title RSA. They come up every now and then. Often have seats/cage, already have the deleted rear seats, carpet, door panels, non-power steering, etc. It's essentially option a with less work.

For refernce, here's Tyson's build list:

Originally posted by Tyson Schmidt
I still think a salvage title 964 coupe, '92-'94.
Remove sound deadening
Keep A/C
RS heat tube in place of blower in engine comp.
cat bypass (or euro premuff) and primary muffler bypass
Race seats
RS carpet / RS doorpanels
rollbar, then later full cage
5-points
ducktail
race pads, remove brake shields
extra set of track wheels and tires, 8's and 9's (Cup 1 style)
springs and struts (400# front, 600# rear)
RS adjustable sways
LSD, if not already equipped
in-car lap timer
hard-wired transponder
lightweight battery
track alignment

That should get you started. More suspension mods could come later

I'll post the WTB on this and every other forum after my car passes the PPI next week. Until then, help me narrow my focus, evaluate the pro/cons, etc. And if you have any leads, pass them on!

Thanks guys - I'm really looking forward to this chapter.

Don

[Don Plumley]

Sorry to add on, but I had another idea (based on an eBay car I saw): How about picking up a convertible, and a la Widebody911 - put in a full cage and a fiberglass roof?

[KTL]

I'd definitely buy one that's already been done, or close to it. Yeah it's nice to do stuff yourself and nice to put on the stuff you feel is the hot setup. But you can save a LOT of money buying someone else's finished product. No point in spending all the big $ to hotrod your '87. You already know this. Someone's gonna be real pleased with your '87.

If I was looking for a car? I'd love something like
mountaineer's car Tell me that car wouldn't be a hoot to drive on the track.

[addictionMS]

you should really consider getting something that will easily become a Toyo Cup Car. It is a really great class, and once you get enough DEs under your belt, you will want to race. Toyo Cup is the best 911 racing in Northern CA.

The top Toyo cup Car is turning 1:49s at Sears, and 2:01s at Thunderhill.

Jim

[Don Plumley]

Jim - I looked at the Toyo cup site and couldn't figure out the specs. Does Toyo cup stop at 89 or do they have 964's?

[nostatic]

Unless they changed the spec you can't do a 964 due to the coilovers.

Don I would stick with a coupe, preferably non-sunroof if you can find it. I would buy a prepped one *if* you can verify that all the work was done well/correctly. Otherwise, if you get a decent starting platform you can slowly build it out as you go.

You should definitely look at the TT/Race organizations around you and pick a class, then build (or buy) to that spec, or towards that spec. Toyo spec is a good target, but it seems like the cars (and spec) are getting more expensive that they were when they started.

[KobaltBlau]

I think the convertible idea is not so smart because a fiberglass hardtop is not cheap, and there's really no advantage over a coupe. Also, why buy an RSA when you are going to change the suspension anyway? if you go 964 just buy a cheap C2.

Don - this page should answer your questions on the 911 cup rules. no 964s. I think this is a very good idea and looks relatively easy to build to (or buy to) without spending tons of money:

http://www.911cup.com/classrules.html

but, have you driven a kart? you can rent them for cheap in your area, most of the tracks at this link rent karts, just call. worth a (very fun) try for $100 or less, right?:

http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/KartTracks.html#OutdoorCA

[addictionMS]

Toyo cup is torsion bar only, so no 964s.

I just published the proposed 2006 rules, here

http://www.addictionmotorsports.com/toyo_cup.htm

I would encourage all to read them, but please don't join in the discussion on the Toyo Cup BBS, we are only going to listen to those who have raced a car in 2004 or 2005 anyway since they are the ones who have something invested. This is my first ever time on a rules committee and is is tough telling people that next year their car will not be in spec, even if it was never in spec in the first place. In the big picture, it is a good thing, it means that the class is growing and has sufficient interest to require the tightening of the rules, and the proper enforcement of them as well.

Jim

[nostatic]

Andy, I think that is an old spec. There was talk of going to a 3.0 spec, but not sure how that played out. Also, allowing full fiberglass makes things more expensive, although you can always run heavy...you just likely won't be competitive.

[nostatic]

Jim, looks good. My tired SC would qualify

I just need to lose 500lbs...

[addictionMS]

funny, you don't look that heavy in your pictures

Jim

[nostatic]

haha. my camera subtracts weight

You guys really have most cars running ballast with that low of a weight spec? Are any of these cars street legal? Does anyone drive them to/from the track?

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Don Plumley
Sorry to add on, but I had another idea (based on an eBay car I saw): How about picking up a convertible, and a la Widebody911 - put in a full cage and a fiberglass roof?

I think that's a great idea! You remove a bunch of weight up high. I don't know about the legalities for particular classes though.

[Jack Olsen]

Don, in your shoes I wouldn't worry about a race class.

Let's say you spend three years doing time trials and open tracking. The Toyo Cup car you buy today is probably not going to be the hot Toyo Cup setup on that eventual date. I'd buy a solid car now that's been set up for the track, preferably one that you can sell for nearly the same price when/if you do choose to go and race in a particular series.

[addictionMS]

Originally posted by nostatic
haha. my camera subtracts weight

You guys really have most cars running ballast with that low of a weight spec? Are any of these cars street legal? Does anyone drive them to/from the track?

Yea, there are a number of cars running balast, I do. I have 80lbs of lead and need to finish with 10 gal of gas in the car for another 60lbs

I don't know about the others, but mine is not street legal.

Jim

[Don Plumley]

Originally posted by Jack Olsen
Don, in your shoes I wouldn't worry about a race class.

Let's say you spend three years doing time trials and open tracking. The Toyo Cup car you buy today is probably not going to be the hot Toyo Cup setup on that eventual date. I'd buy a solid car now that's been set up for the track, preferably one that you can sell for nearly the same price when/if you do choose to go and race in a particular series.

Originally posted by Don Plumley
To restate my goals from this thread, I need a car for DE's and TT's so I can build seat time over the next couple of years. No specific plans to race, so class, etc. not important at this time.

That's the direction I was headed. Two or three years of TT and DE. IF, (and a big IF knowing me) I decide that W2W is where I want to go, then I'd buy a no compromises car for that spec and trailer it. The 100% track-prepped cars are compelling (man are they great looking), but many don't have heat, a few require 95+ octane (eliminates filling up on I-5), etc.

Given my objective of driving the car to and from the track, I'm willing to accept certain compromises to make that feasible. For example, in a C2 the A/C is not a huge weight penalty, but will make a drive down to Buttonwillow liveable.

So the C2 - either ready to roll or minor build - sounds more and more like the right thing to do for me today, in my state of development and interest.

Todd - let me find the link for an RS clone that is some sort of POC spec - that has weights mounted in the passenger floorpan and is street legal.

[Don Plumley]

Todd - here is a beautiful RS Clone set for spec with removable weights, and is street legal:



2365 including 50# of ballast. $29,500 ready to race.

The site loads slow - it's worth it.

[nostatic]

one thing to think about is if you're going to want to mod/swap engines, you need to start with something '75 or older.

I think a C2 is a good idea, especially if you can find (and insure) a salvage title. Since you want street legal, you have to worry about insurance.

This doesn't have to be your last car, so looking for something to get you through a couple years of DE/TT is reasonable imho. With that in mind, the sky is the limit. A solid SC or Carerra with safety and suspension would be great. I personally don't mind being low on power (I'm scared of going fast). The trick in your search is that a lot of track prepped cars are not street legal, or are just barely so. You might want to think about starting with a more mild prep or stock car (depending on the price) and going from there.

I'll mildly disagree with Jack on one point. While you don't need to necessarily look at a race class, I would be on the lookout for what groups you want to run in and how their classification systems work. If you TT, it is more fun to be running against somewhat "equivalent" cars. For instance I have been able to be competitive in POC because of the limited prep level on my car, whereas Jack gets bumped way up into running against seriously tweaked cars. But with a different organization, things are different.

While you might not want that *today*, in the near future you might want to be in a "competitive" TT environment. I can say that I had a lot of fun doing STS this year, and had to think differently on occasion based on needing points, etc.

[Cory M]

Don,

I pm'd you

[dtfastbear]

Don,

There are a couple of interesting Carrera and SC track prepped cars advertised in the Panorama classifieds that I just received in the mail this weekend. One is in SoCal. Both in the low 20's. Check 'em out!

Dean