Need suspension advice

[SiberianDVM]

This is my 84 Targa at CMP DE last weekend.

I have had the car 10 months. Replaced all the brake components, replaced front shocks with Bilstein HDs, rears with Bilstein Sports, lightened a bit, turbo tie rod ends, front strut brace. Haven't replaced any bushings, torsion bars, or sway bars yet.

I'm not happy with the amount of roll I'm seeing and feeling.

Suggestions to control the roll? I'm thinking torsion bars are next, and Elephants rubber bushings while I'm in there. Is that correct, and if so, what size torsion bars for a 90% track car?

[winders]

22mm front and 31mm rear torsion bars. Get Tarrett Adjustable anti-roll bars front and rear as well.

Scott

[winders]

Then get the car lowered and corner balanced by someone that knows what they are doing.

After that, drive. Repeat.

Scott

[wildcat077]

Looks like you would have even more roll if that oversized instructor wasn't sitting in the passenger seat ... lol

Just like Scott says... been there still doing it
There is no end to improvements !

Cheers !
Phil

[Chuck Moreland]

Stiffer torsions, shocks custom valved to match, adjustable sways, lowered, raised spindles if the rules allow. If it's 90% track, don't go with rubber bushings - go Polybronze for sure. 23/31 torsion bars. Call if you want to talk specifics.

[Flieger]

Well, your first problem is you are tracking a Targa.

[michael lang]

After you replaced the tie rods and the shocks, did you have the alignment done? Did you have the car lowered? When the shocks were replaced, did you notice the ride height raise? My suggestion would be before you start throwing tons of cash at the car, is to start there. Get the car lowered and properly aligned and balanced. Once you have that as a correct starting point, don't touch the car. Spend the entire next season on maintenance, safety equipment and driving at DE's. Get to know your car and what you can and can't do with it. I will go on record as saying that I agree with everything everyone suggested about upgrading. Believe it or not one of the best modifications that I did to my car was putting in seats and harnesses. The reason is that I could focus on driving and not have to worry about holding on while I'm trying to drive. Remember, if you can drive a slow car fast, you can drive anything fast and if your instructors haven't already told you this, I would recommend you get one that has a car like yours. They will show you the correct way. Best of luck to you.

[Dave 86 930 Fl]

Talk to chuck at Elephant, I did some 3 years ago and I've been a happy camper since. Lots of experts out there, make sure you are dealing with one

Regards, Dave

[SiberianDVM]

Originally Posted by Flieger

Well, your first problem is you are tracking a Targa.

Gotta dance with the girl I brung.

I did adjust the front ride height after the shock install and weight reduction; I measured the rear and it wasn't too bad, so after looking at the Rube Goldberg rear height adjustment Porsche installed, I left it alone for now. I will remeasure front and rear height after I install the roll cage.

Front toe-in alighnment was done after shock and tie rod installation; that was all I could get done locally. Car tracks very well, just rolls in the turns. After some more work is done, I will trailer her to Autometrics in Charleston or Franz Blam near Atlanta.

I got my shocks from Chuck, so I will give him a call.

My instructor was tall, but skinny. My weight more than balanced his.

[wildcat077]

Quote : My instructor was tall, but skinny. My weight more than balanced his.

OK,so it looks like he's wearing a big a$$ helmet ... lol

Cheers !
Phil

[Geneman]

I did the complete package from Chuck at ERP this past winter its a relatively moderate diy project ERP and Chuck were extremely helpful .. also see a number of very good detailed threads here on installation. i did ASPs, 21/32 tbars polybronze everywhere. tarret adj bars. raisedv spindles decambered ball joints...this is THE BEST BUCK you can spend on an early race car build its also fine on the street etc etc... car handles flat as can be not a hint of body roll. game changer for sure in terms of your racing skill development. just my 2 cents frank

Carrera Suspension Update

search "trog"

[Dave 86 930 Fl]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

Gotta dance with the girl I brung.

I did adjust the front ride height after the shock install and weight reduction; I measured the rear and it wasn't too bad, so after looking at the Rube Goldberg rear height adjustment Porsche installed, I left it alone for now. I will remeasure front and rear height after I install the roll cage.

Front toe-in alighnment was done after shock and tie rod installation; that was all I could get done locally. Car tracks very well, just rolls in the turns. After some more work is done, I will trailer her to Autometrics in Charleston or Franz Blam near Atlanta.

I got my shocks from Chuck, so I will give him a call.

My instructor was tall, but skinny. My weight more than balanced his.

That's the right attitude ... A good friend and DE instructor has a twin turbo targa with 500 whp and he kicks some serious A$$. Let's face it, tracking a street car is a compromise, so have fun with what you have.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Consider reinforcing the rear ARB mounts. They are definitely known to tear loose from the chassis, particularly when tracking a car with stiffer Anti-Roll Bars.

--DD

[SiberianDVM]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

Consider reinforcing the rear ARB mounts. They are definitely known to tear loose from the chassis, particularly when tracking a car with stiffer Anti-Roll Bars.

--DD

I'll check the brackets next time I'm under the chassis. What is the best way to reinforce them?

[Dave 86 930 Fl]

Quote de Dave at Pelican Parts

Consider reinforcing the rear ARB mounts. They are definitely known to tear loose from the chassis, particularly when tracking a car with stiffer Anti-Roll Bars.



--DD

I'll check the brackets next time I'm under the chassis. What is the best way to reinforce them?

Have a good shop cut the old junk brackets off and weld in aftermarket brackets. I did this mod, it's a must do

[burgermeister]

A set of adjustable ARBs (Tarrett, SRP) will eliminate more roll that the torsion bar change. For instance, switching my 88 from 19/25 to 22/29 resulted in maybe 0.3 deg less roll, based on some fairly detailed calculations. Using ARBs got me almost 1 degree less roll without going to silly settings. I'd do both TB and ARB for a track car - doing just one makes little sense.

I'm always impressed at how people can feel the amount of roll in a car - I sure can't feel the difference between 3 and 4 degrees, which is pretty substantional. But your tires will tell you - if you're frying the outside shoulder, you don't have enough negative camber, and once your alignment is bottomed out, reducing roll is one of the easiest ways to get more negative camber (actually, less positive camber) while cornering.

[Randy W]

It looks like your car is too high. Once you lower the roll center you should be much better off. Personally, I would not put huge torsion bars on a Targa. Been there, done that.

[winders]

The Targa I used to own handled incredibly well and it had 22mm front and 31mm rear torsion bars......

Scott

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I can vouch for that. At least, it looked like it from the outside. And from checking the event results.

Hey--I thought that was your wife's car?

--DD

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by Geneman

I did the complete package from Chuck at ERP this past winter its a relatively moderate diy project ERP and Chuck were extremely helpful.

ERP is not Elephant Racing (Chuck). ERP is ERP:

ERP Suspension Engineering Porsche