Should I instruct?

[jhynesrockmtn]

I've been asked to instruct for an upcoming DE day for our local Porsche club. I've done several track days and have been racing vintage formula vee since 2008. My concern is that I'm not a certified instructor. I did it once last year when they were in a pinch and it went ok. Luckily I had two good beginner students that day.

What are the potential issues in terms of liability and lacking instruction on how to handle more difficult situations? How can a club run a DE day with non certified instructors and maintain proper insurance, etc.

I wasn't too impressed with how they ran things last year and one of the instructors wadded up his 911 running crap tires. I don't think they required instructor cars to be tech'd. I know my 914 didn't have to be and I ran that car. It had recently been serviced and inspected but I wasn't required to prove that.

I'm nervous about this. I'd like to help them out and grow this program. They are pushing hard really hard as they don't want to turn students away.

Any advice?

[Cory M]

Your main task instructing newbies is just to keep things as safe as possible. You aren't trying to create the next Lewis Hamilton. You will basically be showing the braking points, how to late apex turns, track out, etc. Speed and low laptimes is not your primary objective. How well it goes will depend on how clear your instruction is and (mostly) if the student listens to you. Your willingness to accept the additional risk and hassle of riding shotgun with an unknown person in an unknown car between your sessions is your call.

If you don't want to instruct but still want to help out the club you could volunteer in other capacities: tech, registration, gridding cars, set up, etc.

[KaiB]

If your heart's in it, you know what the answer is already.

Given your questions though, I'd check with the club regarding insurance and speak with the CDI about your student assignments.

I'd ask for two Green level students and no Turbos, Vettes or the like. 99.999% of the new guys are wonderful students and you have the capability to absolutely make their weekend great.

[PCA7GGR]

I share your concern regarding the car(s) that you (I) instruct in. If the safety tech is marginal or non-existent, then you've got to evaluate the car and, if doesn't look (feel) safe to you, then point this out to the student and the chief instructor.

Also, if the student does not follow you instruction, have the driver go into the pits, point out the need for them to listen to you. If on the 2nd go around they still don't listen, then go back to the pits and get out.

Track instructing was one of the most fulfilling things that I've don't in my life. But its something that you want to do in cars that are safe and drivers that you feel want to learn.

[aston@ultrasw.c]

Very good replies so far.

PCA requires nationally certified instructors or local instructors approved by the local chief driving instructor.

PCA also requires that the event has insurance coverage and a copy of the cert must be available at the event. You can ask to see it.

Instructor certification class includes a section on the student interview. Find out who your student is. Go and talk to them for a while. Find out what their experience is, what they want to get out of their day, what the status of the car is etc...

Really get to know them. 99% of the time it will be just fine. However, every now and then you may feel uneasy. Listen to your gut. Find the chief driving instructor and simply say, I'm not comfortable with this guy.

If he is competent he will handle the situation smoothly and find you another student.

Whatever, don't get in the car!

[aston@ultrasw.c]

BTW as a former CDI I can say that your efforts are hugely appreciated.

Instructors are the life blood of DE and they tend to be taken for granted.

[sugarwood]

I would forward your list of grievances in your OP to the guy running the DE.
Tell him that once they sort out their issues, you'll be glad to help out.
Otherwise, I would steer clear of getting involved with an poorly managed outfit that is winging it.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I had a good discussion with the club past president yesterday. He listened and was able to alleviate a few of my concerns. I'm going to do it and continue to try and make their program better.

[thstone]

One thing that I didn't see discussed was the situation from the student's point of view - will the student be happy or accept that they will be teamed with an instructor who may very well be a great driver but one who has never had any instructor training?

My guess is that the student is expecting to be paired with someone who has had some actual training and experience in instruction.

Instructing is very different from driving. They are often complimentary, but still, different skillsets. A new instructor needs training just as much as a new high performance driving student.

So, can someone without training instruct? Has it been done before without catastrophic results? Certainly, yes. Don't get me wrong, I understand reality. But throwing two people who are both inexperienced in their roles onto a track and hoping for the best may not be the best recipe for safety and success.

Bottom line from my POV: Can you get away with it? Probably, yes. Should you try to get away with it, probably no.

[Alex973]

There are classes to get you certified by PCA why not? actually
ask your PCA Zone Chief to get you certified.
Good Luck

[Walt Fricke]

Alex is from the Big Northeast, where the Zone has a lot of influence. Most zones don't have zone officers or officials like a Zone Chief. I'm pretty sure your zone does not.

The PCA has a pretty good slide show for instructors. If you can't find it elsewhere, go to rmr.pca.org (Rocky Mountain Region's website) and hunt around for it.

Barber lists the priorities this way: the line, then accelerating out of corners, then braking (optimizing, that is).

Me, I try hard not to talk too much, and especially not about the corner we just got through. I try to be mainly directive with what I have to say until the student has a half-way decent line (brake, turn in, unwind the wheel, always use all the track, all the way to the right, squeeze on the gas, that kind of thing). First timers are often on sensory overload.

Try to remember what the student did wrong (or could improve) at corner X for the next time you approach it, so you can get him set (remember, go all the way to the right to start this turn) as you approach.

Lots of compliments when the student gets a corner right, especially if it had been a problem. At some point, the student will say he is sorry he bungled that one. Tell him that since he realized the error, he has learned a lot already, because he now knows where the car should be, and it is just a question of some more repetition until he gets it right almost all the time. In short, he is now teaching himself.

I like students in super powered turbos who ease back well before the brake point - they don't want to be going any faster. However, where they are driving slower than they would on the highway, you can at an appropriate time point that out.

Instructing beginners is so rewarding, because 99.9% of them will improve a lot under your instruction. You don't need to be particularly fast in your own car, just know the line and impart some of that knowledge to the student. That can be the tricky part, and we all vary in our skill in doing this, which is not all that related to our own driving skill.

[aston@ultrasw.c]

Great insight Walt.

Just to expand one of your suggestions,

If a student makes a complete mess of a corner I might say, "Don't worry we'll do it differently next time."

Often the student visibly relaxes.

Next lap I might say, "OK, that tricky corner is coming up, this time move all the way to the right..."

[jhynesrockmtn]

Thanks so much for the replies and link to the rmr site. The resources there are terrific!

[VaSteve]

I usually have to "learn" a student pretty quick. Some folks you can tell them to turn in, and they will process it, and then turn in. Some will do it immediately. That's fun to sort out. I've had a lot of students over the past 5 years or so. It's been very rewarding.

[Cajundaddy]

I enjoy instructing and offer to do it at every event. If you are unsure about the process ask the CDI for a short instructor briefing before the event. This often eases anxiety about riding in the right seat.

My goals with a student are simple:
1. High safety awareness
2. Good car control skills
3. Good cooperation with other drivers, instructors, and officials.

I always interview the driver beforehand and ask their goals, tell them my goals, and remind them that we want to take the car and ourselves home in one piece. We depend on each other out there to make that happen. Let's start out at 6or7 10ths, get the car in the right place on the track, and then we can add speed safely. Sound good? We have all day to get this right. If I am getting mixed signals or sense a lack of cooperation from my student, I don't get in the car and continue my interview until I am certain we are in agreement. Once we are going 120 mph it is too late.

I don't fear high HP cars and have instructed in everything. Cowboys, red mist, and going too fast, too soon are when bad things happen. If at any time I feel the student is not cooperating fully, we end the session for the safety of everyone.

I try to keep my instruction positive, encouraging, and fun. Big applause or thumbs up when they get a corner right , and offer 3 things they did well and 3 things to work on during our after-session debrief in the cold pits.

FWIW We are offering a PCA National DE Instructor Training course in Oct. at WSIR in SoCal. I encourage every instructor to attend this at least once. Prerequisites are: driving experience logbook or resume, a recommendation from your club CDI, and an experienced instructor/mentor from your club to work with you in the car. Registration for this event will hit Motorsportreg in August.

[PCA7GGR]

"You drive like a professional making a lot of mistakes"

[Quinlan]

I find that hand signals are absolutely loved by students. The standard left, right, clenched fist for braking and the "released fist" for "release the brakes".
I equate the communicator to a cell phone. As another contributor stated, the students are often on sensory overload, and talking to the student over the communicator seems to distract them even more. I try to keep the comments and conversation to the long straights, with the exception of "brake brake BRAKE!!"

As others have said, when approaching a difficult corner I may say "okay, this is the tough corner. Remember - further left at turn-in", but I shut up as soon as we get near turn-in, and let the hand signals take over.

The "release the brakes" signal is very effective to get the student to gradually take a corner at higher speed, as opposed to telling the student "we can go faster through this one". I have them release the brakes earlier, rather than have them try to brake deeper into the corner. This way, they take the corner at a higher speed, since they have done less braking than the previous laps.

Once they see that they can take the corner at a higher speed, they usually develop the later braking on their own.

[PCA7GGR]

A thumbs up for "well done" and waving hand for "not so well done".

I had an intermediate student who was uncomfortable after our first session, I asked her, what was concerning her. She said "You talk too much" (Me? Talk to much?). So I told her that I'd communicate with just had signals.

Back in the 80's when I was a student, that all we had.

[Cajundaddy]

Yep, hand signals are my preferred method in the car to avoid input overload. We can talk about the corners in the cold pits.

[puddy]

I really like the sound of those hand signals, but my last 2 DE instructors didn't use them, they just spoke to me. Fortunately I can walk and chew gum at the same time so didn't have much trouble listening to their instructions However I did notice some other greens who seemed to be sensory overloaded and couldn't indicate a pass or were doing it much too late, got many of us bunched up in a train. I know they'll get better tho...