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-   -   89 911 LS1 Conversion (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/556905-89-911-ls1-conversion.html)

drmatera 04-29-2013 01:37 PM

I would find out what a C5 or C6 Vette has for trans gear ratios. Gotta figure GM knows the best gearing for a 3100 pound Vette. As long as the ring/pinion in your G50 is close to the Vette rear end it should work fine. If I recall a Vette can reach right around 60 in first... Imagine your 0-60 time with that ratio ;)

Yan2947 06-05-2013 08:34 PM

I decided to go with toy-jets wing design with his triple pass radiator. His wings have really come around and incorporated what I was looking for. My friend's at Han's Auto just got the install finished and I will document the efficiency of the cooling. My old wing design worked great except on the 90 degree days where the coolant temps got a little hotter - around 220F. I am hoping this never goes near there. Here are some pics of the new wing:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370491595.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370492184.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370492210.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370492720.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370493045.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370493105.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1370493182.jpg


Not sure what you think compared to my old design. Photos from the old design are clear on page 8 of this build. Just curious what everyone thinks compared to my older design. I had used a 930 wing and cut the back off and had a fiberglass cap made on the old one. This new design is more from the lines of a dp 935 wing.

drmatera 06-06-2013 06:14 AM

looks good except it appears the rad is tilted down at the back (hard to get the air out of the system). Maybe it's just the pic angle.

Either way the fit looks great.

quattrorunner 06-06-2013 06:39 AM

Looks clean. I'd guess you could open the deck lid while filling if needed

KC Chief 06-06-2013 07:41 AM

I love it. It's subtle, it would take one of us to recognize it. Beautiful car.

lin7310948 06-06-2013 09:57 AM

yan, not a proponent of the rear wing cooling as i prefer a ducktail. but, it does look much nicer than i would have imagined and would look right at home on a widebody. good work!!

Yan2947 06-06-2013 01:44 PM

Thanks for the replies. It is tilted down slightly but one must lift it to fill it a bit. Got to burp it a few times to get all the air out. My old one was also tilted down. Larry, I would love to swap cars with you and that would solve my wide body problem. This narrow body would look great with your ducktail and yours would look great with my tail. I call it an even trade? LOL! I wish!

drmatera 06-07-2013 06:07 AM

Yan, I didn't realize the rad lifted with the wing. That's cool and takes care of the purge problem.

Yan2947 06-07-2013 08:40 PM

drmatera, no problem. Not too many rear radiator 911's out there. It should be sealed well so opening and closing wont affect the coolant or trapping air. I really like the looks of the new wing and the radiator is quite a bit larger and hopefully efficient... The car is burped completely and I am awaiting a hot day. Not sure when its coming... I also removed the thermostat to get un-restricted flow. Don't really think I need one unless someone else really has thoughts on that. I just installed my brand new nos fog lamps that took forever to find and a brand new rubber chin spoiler.

If the cooling is on the mark my next job is the AC...

Yan2947 07-13-2013 06:53 AM

Who has added AC to their 911 lsx setup? What route/steps did you take?

thanks!

tobluforu 07-13-2013 07:26 AM

Very cool, maybe a black cap?

PacificP 07-16-2013 09:20 AM

hey yan, i really think you need to run the thermostat because the water needs to spend a little time in the motor to warm the car properly or you car will run too cold in the mornings and when it gets hot in the afternoon your water will be moving to quick to cool and continue to heat up to over heat on supper hot days. i run the thermostat with a triple pass radiator with no problems at all. i have ran it without the thermostat and had the hot cold problems described above.

ccreddell 07-16-2013 03:17 PM

Like the wing. Reminds me of the DP935 wing-which has always been my favorite...

Yan2947 07-16-2013 05:33 PM

PacificP, I re-worked a lot of stuff and finally got the car back on the road today. I shortened all my hoses and moved my water pump to the driver's side. The temps outside today were 95 + and hummmmmiiiiddd! My Spal fan fuse blew and it got hot fast! I doubled up my relays so I will have enough amps and should not have a problem but I may put the thermostat back in. I am not worried about warming the car up. If you think it is important to slow up the coolant I will put it back in. I put a 50 gpm electric pump in and put my 55 gpm on the shelf. Your triple is in the front I assume? Where do you put your thermostat? Before entering the block or after it leaves the heads? I believe most put the thermostat in as it enters the block again.

Thanks ccreddell!

Yan2947 07-17-2013 01:31 PM

I re-installed the thermostat today, hooked up the dual relays for the 1 16" spal fan. It was 95 degrees today and very humid. It was a perfect day to test the system. The spal fan cooled big time and I really noticed a much cooler temp with the thermostat. It took much longer to get hot and the dash gauge was considerably lower then yesterday. Having the coolant sit in the radiator a little longer I believe made a huge difference. I am running about a 1/3 dex to 2/3 distilled water. I drove for about 15 miles in total. At 3000 rpm I reached temps of about 206. At 4000 rpm I reached 221. I didn't try 5000 rpm but I am sure it would jump right up. Has anyone tried any high rpm's for a period of time/miles on a hot day and what temps do you get to. I happen to have a guage with coolant temp. The sensor is on the head as per Steve's instructions at RH. I also have a temp radiator cap which is at the end of cooling on the radiator and finally I am using an Iphone App - Rav, with the Elm327 OBD2 wifi attached. This one uses the computer's sensor - not sure where that sensor is but it usually is 10 degrees hotter at least from my guage. My fans kick on at 195 and goes off at 185. The 16" spal 22 amp fan works amazingly well. Once I layed off the rpm's the car cooled down to 185 in just a minute or two. My dash guage appears to be accurate and never went over 200 degrees today. I am just confused as to why the 20+ degree difference between that dash gauge and iphone app/car computer. I know one thing, I could have cooked a turkey under that fan today!

Lukesportsman 07-17-2013 03:52 PM

Yan:

I wasn't a big fan of his first gen wings, but your's looks really nice. My only concern and if over the LS1 it may be more academic than reality is the weight up high. I still don't like my AC on the deck lid of my 84'. All this talk of P vs C is really funny. I have Chevys and several Porsches. I have aircooled turbo and water cooled turbo and you know what? If built correct their all fun! My Chevy powered Porsche isn't my fastest, but it certainly isn't the worst gas mileage either.

Gas guzzling!!!!! LMAO Have you driven a 2.7MFI hard? How about a GT2? My GT2 can eat a tank in 100 miles. Gas mileage is only related to hp and bsfc. There isn't a turbo air cooled car with a reasonable bsfc out there (well not one that wont burn itself up after a couple laps).

I laughed at water pumpers for years (and still prefer aircooled) but there are many ways to go quick. Keep up the posts and keep up the fight!

Yan2947 07-17-2013 05:04 PM

Luke, thanks for the post. I don't think the radiator up high makes too much of a difference. I guess an expert would have to drive a turbo with the intercooler and compare the handling of this car. This car handles well. The stiffer torsion bars and new struts allow this car to corner much better then my old setup - but it was old. This lid, wing and base is all fiberglass compared to my last setup with the original lid being metal and heavy rubber spoiler/lip on the wing.

BillyJoelR 08-04-2013 07:31 PM

I am subscribed.
Thank you for sharing most or all of the details.

PacificP 08-05-2013 07:59 AM

hey Yan, are you running just one fan? you need two at 2500cfms each that should control heat with relays and have them kick on at a lower temp around 180 before it gets to hot to overcome, yes my triple is in front with a sealed box and my thermostat is on the motor intake manifold.

Yan2947 08-05-2013 10:15 AM

PacificP, I am currently using a single spal fan 16 inch. It pulls 22 amps. How large is your triple and what size fans r u using? Do you use stock gears or are yours taller? Also, my fans kick on at 195 and shut off at 185. If yours comes on at 180 at what temp does it shut off?

Thanks!

PacificP 08-06-2013 03:01 PM

I use two 16 inch fans in a duel shroud that never shut off, it pulls more air over the complete area of the cooling fins and cools the water to the point where i let the thermostat reheat the water in the motor back to 180. The running temp on the gauge shows 170 to 175. I am not sure of what size radiator i am currently running but it is not bigger than the one you are using. I have a 90 amp alt to power the fans and use the taller gears that came with the 78 sc 915 trans. I think if you doubled up on fans, the extra air flow alone over the motor with help it a lot. By the way i was at button willow raceway at a drivers DE driving really hard, the car never got over 195 but that is still a 20 degree change. I would expect that under racing conditions.

Yan2947 08-10-2013 04:50 PM

Pacificp, my radiator won't fit two 16" fans. I would need a 32" wide radiator. I think I am 26" wide. Larger radiator makes total sense. I don't have the room in the wing. Can u post a photo of your setup? How did u do compared to the other cars at button willow?

PacificP 08-12-2013 11:43 AM

i lapped everyone twice per session.... some said best sounding Porsche out there and said they would call me a liar if asked to repeat it in public. sure ill take some pics today, PM me with you text number and i will send them to your phone or email. i suck at posting pics on line.

Yan2947 08-12-2013 04:59 PM

That is awesome! I always get double takes when I drive by car people! PM sent!

Yan2947 09-29-2013 07:00 AM

The car is getting all new AC. New compressor, new rear condenser and all new lines, dryer and valve!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380466772.jpg

FxAffPro 10-01-2013 07:24 PM

This is a very awesome thread. You always have to do what makes you happy. I am a Porsche Fan and just recently got my 1st Porsche Project Car a 1977 911S Coupe. I have also always been a Classic Car, and Hot Rod Fan, and have owned many Cars & Hot Rods.

Stuffing a Chevy Motor in a Porsche well is interesting to say the least! Very cool stuff, and I Say Live and Let Live. There is no point in wasted breath and hammering somebody for doing something they believe in and love doing.

Here are a couple of Really Cool Vids I found, and if I am not mistaken the 427 911 may be lin731's car? It is pretty Bad@$$ to say the least! Very Beastly sounding and I don't know why any car fanatic would not agree that it Sounds Awesome!!!

Porsche with 427 LS #1 - YouTube

This second video I have to admit though is also one seriously Bad@$$ Porsche and yes I know it is a RSR Track Car but still it sounds Pissed Off and You Got to Love It. It definitely has it's own sound, some would say it does sound like a V8 especially for being an Air Cooled Flat 6!!!

1977 Porsche 911 RSR - YouTube

Anyway I just wanted to comment even if I get flack for it, because no matter what you are doing what you love and makes you happy and that is cool, as well as your car...

Take it easy, and I will keep following this thread simply because I love ALL cool cars.

Regards...

Yan2947 10-02-2013 03:19 AM

FxAffPro, thanks for the comments. I personally could not be happier with my car unless of course it was lin731's car! His 427 tops all the lsx swaps. I think we all have enjoyed our projects. Never had to pour anything into the car to get it started like in the video. Turn the key once and one gets the amazing sounds of a hot rod in a Porsche! Thanks again!

Yan2947 10-16-2013 03:42 AM

I got my AC finally installed. Highland Radiator did an awesome job! I purchased a new rear condenser from Griffiths for the deck lid, drier and expansion valve. The front condenser was perfect. The evaporator was fine! I swapped out my old hose and used Aeroquip hose instead of barrier hose. I used it only because it was recommended by the AC guys for the reason of its strength and long life. I really don't know that it makes a huge difference. The only difference should be in the life expectancy of the line. I also had to purchase a new compressor. Mine was bad. The hose I used was Aeroquip. It states:

Aeroquip GH134 is a Multi-Refrigerant hose that meets or exceeds SAE J2064 Type E Class 1 Specifications. It is hose. It won't be seen and if it works I am happy! A first test of my AC without any additional condensers showed a vent temp at 40 degrees. I will be very happy if the temp keeps there. I don't need freezing. I don't mind freezing but usually the passenger complains of "too cold" so I am fine with the 40 degrees. Of course, the real test will be next summer...

I also put two Spal fans (pushers) on top of the rear deck condenser. There is room for one more but I want to wait to see how cold the temp is in the summer. I used one Spal relay for the two fans. The relay takes quite a bit more amps then these small fans so even adding an additional fan to the condenser won't effect the relay. My radiator fan is using two relays because it uses in the area of 23 plus amps. I could probably get away with just one relay there but I had two so they are both connected...

These photos are not too exciting but here are a couple of the setup:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381923606.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381923642.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381923663.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381923678.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381923694.jpg

Yan2947 10-16-2013 03:44 AM

On Friday the car is going to the Dyno Tuner. My timing advance is way off according to many LS1 people. We shall see...

Pezho405 10-16-2013 08:57 AM

Im completley against what you are doing, but great craftsmanship skill

Yan2947 10-18-2013 10:55 AM

Dyno Tuner
 
Brought the car over to Powerplant Motorsports to have my car tuned and solve the heating issue. We found that the car was running way too lean, too much advance and above all... My throttle was only able to be used up to 70 percent. When you mash the gas pedal down to the floor and hold it - the throttle can still be opened by hand quite a bit more. This means that somehow there is still 30 percent left. I can not imagine that there is more horse power to be found. Well, we had to stop what we were doing and now the car is having the throttle cable re-positioned to gain the additional throttle... The goal was never to make the car go faster - only to solve my high rpm heating issues.

Point to check for LSx conversions... Make sure when you are flatting your foot on the gas pedal, holding it down (car can be off) and then have someone move the throttle from the engine compartment - it should have no play or movement left and the throttle should be completely open. Easy thing to adjust when putting in the Renegade Kit.

Also, my AC seems to be working great but we shall see when the summer comes back around...

drmatera 10-18-2013 12:24 PM

that is more common than you think. And the lean issue may be due to the fact that the computer is not seeing WOT and therefore not going into PE (power enrichment) when you floor it.

interested in hearing your results. good luck

Yan2947 10-18-2013 02:22 PM

My mechanic just modified the throttle cable bracket. Now I get 100 percent of throttle. I bring the car back to the Dyno Tunner on Monday morning. He will be able to continue with the tuning. I will have results after that. The car is running cooler already. Dropped the fan cut in from 195 to 180 and dropped the shut off to 168 degrees F. I believe it was set to cut off previously at 180.

hightuned 10-18-2013 02:59 PM

Realy nice job, was itching to do a LS conv myself as you just cant beat a chevy v8 when it comes to hp/$, but coulndt bare myselft to do it to a -72 with a relatively healthy body. If should come across a cheap SC i would love to give the LS conv a try. Last converwion i did was a chevy sb in a -75 alfa bertone and that took alot effort and sheet metal work! Would love to see some performace figures when you are all done?

Yan2947 10-18-2013 03:10 PM

Once I have the results on Monday I will be posting the figures. We shall see...

On a side note - Does anyone know if the front fan on the AC condenser up front only goes on via a pressure switch? I have read a bunch of posts but this was not answered. I know when my compressor kicks on I now get cold air. I wired up two spal fans to my rear engine deck condenser. My mechanic believes it only will go on when the there is a strain on the AC system (really hot days). Is this possible or should it go on whenever the compressor goes on?

Lapkritis 10-18-2013 03:19 PM

In for dyno results

Yan2947 10-18-2013 07:55 PM

Here is a link to a dyno run from today:

89 911 ls1 Dyno run - YouTube

Lukesportsman 10-19-2013 12:53 PM

misread thread update. Was checking in for results :)

Yan2947 10-19-2013 03:05 PM

Hopefully I will have results on Monday. Friday's dyno only proved that my throttle went to 70 percent. It has been taken care of. Now I get 100 percent throttle. My mechanic created a new bracket so I get the Full Monty when I step on the peddle. We have to start from scratch Monday with the Dyno Tune so hopefully I will have results at the end of the day! On a side note...

I took apart my front AC Condenser blower that sounded like a freight train. I got it out of the plastic compartment but couldn't get the fan off of it. That little allen nut is really frozen on there. I ended up putting some needle oil on the shaft in different areas as per someone else's thread. (well I just had needle oil) That is all it needed. It is whisper quiet now

Yan2947 10-21-2013 02:45 PM

Finished up at the Dyno today. Stock LS1 after being tuned had the following:

362 HP at the Crank/Engine and 315 at the wheels
386 Max Torque at the Crank/Engine and 336 at the wheels

There was a lot of tuning done. Lowered the advanced timing and corrected all the ratios. The car ran incredibly cool. It was a cool day today, in the 60's so the real test on the coolant system will be in the summer but I tried to get the car to climb in temps. I drove for 5 miles at about 4200 rpm's and could not reach 200 degrees. The fan now comes on at 180 and shuts off at 168. Previously it reached 195 before kicking on. I have all the confidence that I will not get above 220 on the hottest days of the summer.

I plan on taking the car to the drag strip on Sunday to see the times on the car.


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