Thanks for the info. I just realized that the adapter plate already came with the studs to bolt the engine block with the transmission.

Dude, 480hp in a 996. Awesome.

You ever come to Houston?

Hal

Hal,

I go by Mitch... Ya, I do get to Houston on occasion. I have a Grand Daughter that lives in Richardson. PM me and I'll let you know the next time I head that way.

See ya,

LoL. I completely forgot about this graph. I threw it together really fast. This isn't really an engineering drawing. It's simply the speed in gears. The scale is wonky because of the function I used to generate the speed in gears. There was some overlap and arbitrariness to it but it gave me an idea of the rev drops between gears.

It's mostly accurate though based on my gear sets. There's another version of this graph where all the speeds start from 0 revs. It looks like a fan and didn't really tell me what I wanted to know. I was more interested in what it looks like in real life. How many revs do I lose when I shift from one gear to the next and what part of the power band am I in. You can see that Porsche more or less kept the revs up. That's not really beneficial in my application given the wider torque band of the v8.

any updates?

I just returned from a 5,000 mile trip in my 2003 996 C2S LS3-480 HP without any drama... Great road car.

Ok. Back on it.

I moved it on 8-8-14 to a porsche shop that I knew could finish the car. They told me I was next in line on the project car queue.

Long story short, I moved it from there to another shop the first week of 2-15.

That guy was the last shop in town that new both LS engines and old 911's.

He charged $100/hr. I picked the car up from him Jun-19-15. My total bill there?

$100. Yup. He did 1 hour of work in 5 months.

So, it's back in the garage and I'm back in good shape so I'm going to finish it myself.

First step back in the garage was to assess the condition, inventory everything and make a punch list or at least sort of figure out what the next steps are.

It is my belief that all the "evil" that occured, happened at the first shop - the welder, we'll call him. The second shop was an actual Porsche shop and the car was stored properly. The third shop was close to the house and I visited every week. All three of these shops were dark with poor lighting.

So here goes over the next couple of posts.

H

Flatbedded it back to the house yesterday. Spent most of the day cataloging and looking for stuff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434851887.jpg

All that's missing is the drive-by-wire pedal harness and the Rennline kill switch, so far.

That's not too bad, I guess. Only about $100 or so. Still...


It had a squirrel take up residence under the seat. He left his shells there and under the carpet behind the opening in the hell hole.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434851904.jpg

It was a multi-level residence for him with an upstairs rest room.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434851953.jpg

There's some sort of solvent overspray on the paint. It looks like it's in the clear coat. Good thing we loaded up a ton of clear. I have pretty high hopes that it will buff out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434851970.jpg

No pen handy? Not to worry, I'll just make my notes right here on the paint.

Seriously? It was sharpie and came off with wax and grease remover.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434851988.jpg

Got it back in the air so I can get the wheels off and back to the polisher. Again.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434852026.jpg

More tomorrow.

H

Ok. Some progress. Sort of.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434938448.jpg

Looks better washed. There's some smudges on it but thats from someone actually sweating on the car because work is being done...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434938497.jpg

Front trunk opened up, electrical main rerouted into smugglers box, finally.

Also got it connected to the starter.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434938548.jpg

Squirrel nuts cleaned up. No residue!

Computer hooked up and lines organized for later connection.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434938620.jpg

Pulled the manifold. Installed the MAS and the folded manifold. It won't quite fit. There's interference with the parcel shelf. It's actually in contact with the shelf in this photo. Will be calling Renegade tomorrow. It might be the folded manifold - I bought the fiberglass one. Maybe the aluminum one fits better.

ITB's
 

All these manifold issues on LS conversions, I am still waiting on someone to try these:

Amazon.com: OBX ITB Individual Throttle Body Chevy Corvette Ls1 Ls2 Ls6 Sfd52 Itb Kit: Automotive

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg


I know anything OBX can be scary, but it could be a good starting point over $4k jenveys.

I love that manifold. I almost decided to use it. I didn't because I have an RSR wing and there's not much clearance at the back of the motor/back of the car. I also thought about using a carb manifold with a carb replacement throttle body fuel injection system but when I started this there were no good ones. Now there's that FAST one. It's pretty awesome.

I sorted my problem out with the manifold. You have to take it apart and install it in different sections. I had the folded manifold, the MAS and the air cleaner assembled when I was trying to fit it. It wouldn't go. I then lowered the engine a little and it fit perfectly. Then I raised the engine back up and it still fit perfectly. There was a quarter inch of clearance. Then tried running the wiring harness. It was too short to go around back (back of the motor, front of the car, over the crossmember) so I had to run it "through". That means between the GM Manifold and the folded manifold. That required me to disassemble everything separately. And that's when I discovered it would fit in parts.

Now, the cable won't fit. So I need to make some adjustments. I'll post photos after the adjustments are made.

OK. Couple of hours in the shop and we're good to go.

The harness now crosses between the upp and lower manifold perfectly.

Here's how.

This is the before picture.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435195354.jpg

This is the after picture.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435195416.jpg

I just cut it out with my airsaw. No problem.

Also, the last shop routed the harness behind the crossmember - that makes it too short to reach the crankshaft position sensor and the grounding lug.

Here's a picture. But it isn't worth much. I'm working on the ground these days.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435195601.jpg


Also brown santa showed up.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435195640.jpg

Brought me this little contraption.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435195813.jpg

If you review the other LS engine swap projects on the board you'll see that every one of them that started with a used motor spun a bearing.

This happens because you can't pre-oil the LS engine. With 350's you just spin the distributor with a drill and it primes up no problem. The gerotor pump in the LS is crank driven so you can't pre-lube the engine except by turning the crank which defeats the purpose - never mind the difficulty in actually accomplishing that.

This tank is a pre-oiler. It plumbs into the accessory oil pressure port. You charge it up with air and turn it on. Then it blows oil into the motor. If you tee in a manual oil pressure gauge it'll actually show oil pressure.

This engine only has 60k miles on it and it comes from a reputable source so I'm trying to take care of it. We'll see how that works out.

Sorry. Didn't rotate images. Dangit.

Lots of progress today. (Thanks Ryan)

The car doesn't really look any different today than it did yesterday, but now all the cables reach.

I had to extend the starter wires, the alternator main wire and alternator control plug. It was a trivial task but time consuming... Especially trying to remember where I put the butane refill for the soldering iron.

I also rerouted the water lines. I had a guy do it for me and his idea of "clean looking install" and mine differ quite a bit.

The F-manifold is now located in the drivers rear corner of the engine compartment, the hoses from the motor are now hidden under the crossmember mostly and the main line forward is pinned to the pinch weld. It's much cleaner.

I didn't take a poicture of it, I realize now. I'll get it tomorrow.

In order to install the f-manifold, I had to remove the exhaust system. It was then that I realized I needed to fab up some exhaust gaskets. And since I was in there, I decided to repaint the lower part of the engine mount where the fabricator installed the exhaust mount and left it unpainted. I had to clean up the rust, first.

By that time, the car looked like this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435450821.jpg

It was hard to tell if I was getting closer or further away.

Eventually, everything is buttoned back up, the wires are routed properly and everything is plugged in.

Except the chassis harness. I forgot it. Now I have to remove the intake manifold again, scooch it up a bit and route the chassis harness behind it and around to the other side where it belongs.

That'll hopefully be tomorrow.

Solid progress.

Next projects:

Finish the water - I need to splice in the filler neck. It'll go into the passenger side return line right above the brake caliper. That line is routed along the pinch weld as well.

Battery compartment wiring - all of it - there's literally a single wire in the smugglers box where the battery will go. Nothing else.

Gas can.

Wiring: Fuel pump relay, fan relay, water pump relay, 'vette harness wires.

Locate the starter solenoid wire. I want the porsche one that's already tied to the key. I have a lead on it (pun intended). I found one that shows on the diagram as starter wire, but I haven't tried it.

That's it for now.

You know, now that this thread is in it's own forum, nobody reads it anymore.

But, that's ok. It's really become more of a build diary.

Plugged in the brake vacuum line and the steam tube today.

I still need to do the fill line but I just wasn't feeling it today.

I also realized that I need another couple of parts.

List:
weatherpak connector for water pump.
relay for water pump - I think I'm going to buy another Aeromotive relay. Theirs is far superior to the one from Meziere and the Meziere relay doesn't even come with a connector for the pump.
air temp sensor - Can't find mine. Not sure I ever had it, can't remember what it looked like.

Here's a pic from today. I arted it up a little with the backlighting.

H

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435519399.jpg

Your making great progress now your in control of what's happening ;)

I recently procured a Volvo 740 wagon with a Chevy V8. Now I want an LS in every car I own. I thought I could pick up an old 912 with a blown motor for cheap, but...those days are gone.

I wonder what the cost to rebuild a 3.6 will be when mine finally needs it compared to the cost of a Chevy crate engine...

LS Cost VS Rebuild...
 

I have a LS3/480 HP in my 2003 996 C4S. I can tell you if you do the conversion with new parts it's a whole more than a engine rebuild. Now if you do it on the cheap and don't have to sub out any of the work then that might be a different story.

My big cost was sorting the electrical...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435850898.jpg

It's not a real Porsche unless it's waiting for IMS failure...

Thanks Einar!

You're absolutely right. Should have brought it home a few months ago.

There'll be no progress for the two weekends. I'm otherwise occupied. Can't wait to get back to it.

H

Mitch,

That's a great looking car. You still haven't called to tell me when you're bringin' it by!

Hal

To me, this is like any project car. You can either do it cheap or do it right.

Done right, it isn't cheaper than a 3.6 rebuild.

back from vacation yesterday.

not a lot of energy today, but the pressure is on.

First project of the day was a small one. Got up, went to mcdonalds then lowes and bought some flashing.

Now the cowl intake is sealed off. While I like the brushed look, there's a future plan to wrap that, and some other stuff in carbon fiber wrap. it's distant future at this point so this is where it stops for now.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436733037.jpg


Second project was to finish plumbing in the header tank.

This first shot is straight down on the drivers side.

The header tank is on the bottom right and the front of the car is to the left on this picture. Imagine you're standing at the driver side rear tire, looking straight down.

The hose closest to the top of the picture attaches to the bottom of the header tank. This is the fill tube. It crosses ahead of the motor, under the crossmember, over the bellhousing where it connects into the main return line on the passenger side.

Also in this picture, there are two other lines coming from the header tank. The clear one is an overflow - I'm just venting it to ground. Because I'm using NPG+ cooling, there's no vapor pressure so I really don't expect any overflow except when I first fill it.

The third line coming off the header tank is for the steam tube. I really don't know what to expect out of this. I may eliminate them. I need to speak to the NPG+ guys.

Ignore that mess of wires down there. That's a future project. I'm concentrating on water right now. I think most of that stuff is for the gauges. The thick yellow line, I think, is the starter solenoid. Many of those wires will get wrapped.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436733464.jpg

This picture shows the passenger side. The rear of the car is to the right and the front to the left.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436734257.jpg

This picture shows the electric water pump on the right. It also shows the fill tube line from the header tank teed into the main return. It's also a really great shot of the Gates PowerGrip SB shrink wrap hose clamps. I love those things.

Third project for today was to install the intake air sensor. I also broke the throttle position sensor and needed to replace that.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436735366.jpg

Also, I had some time to ponder a few issues as I lay under the car trying to figure out what's next.

First. The Meziere water pump came with a weatherpak connector. I had no idea this was a weatherpak connector until I purchased a kit from DIYAutoTune.

Now, here's the issue. The one I bought was for an 18-20ga wire. They make one for a 14-16ga wire. The wire coming from the relay is 10ga. So, I'll be calling them tomorrow to work out something. I also need to purchase a crimp tool. Dang weatherpak terminals are crimp-on and funky.

Second, I had to buy a new radiator cap. All I could find was a 13lb. I wanted a 7lb. I'll call Evans tomorrow. I also need to buy two or three more gallons.

Lastly, I'm rethinking the water lines, the gas tank, the heater hose routing and the battery location.

Yeah. I know...

Steam Line...
 

Hans,

I wouldn't discount keeping the "steam line" connected. I believe they prevent air from being trapped in the heads of the engine and the dreaded vapor lock. My steam lines are tied into the flow of water to the top outlet of the radiator.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436738094.jpg

Steam Line
 

Hans, I also took the steam line apart so the outlet was on the driver's side which was closer to the expansion tank. I wanted to cut down on the serpentine of hoses running all over the engine bay. It turned out to be harder than I thought since you had to get the angles of the steam line on the base just right.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436738452.jpg

In regards to the steam line... I thought about it later, an airlock in the water system isn't going to create "vapor lock", boiling fuel will do that. An air lock in the radiator water system will create a cavitation with the electric water pump.

I hope that is a better explanation...

Thanks Mitch.

I called Evans this morning. Evans doesn't create steam and I'm using a vacuum filler. Despite this, they said that the rear corners of the head are a low flow area. Coolant tends to pool there and not circulate well. The steam vents will allow positive circulation so the recommendation is to leave them. I blocked off the front one's and used a Gm part that only ties together the front two. They also said the 13lb cap was fine.

Hal

Good information... When you say the front two, you mean the front as if the engine was in a front engine position? Which is now the rear? My LS3 engine came with only the steam lines tied into the front of the engine, I didn't realize there were another set on the bell housing end as well...

How have those hose clamps worked out? What name do they go by?

Thanks,

Front two meaning towards the front of the car/rear of the motor.

The hose clamps are really cool. They're Gates PowerGrip SB. Easy to install, easy to remove.

They don't seem to work that well on small hoses though. I'm not sure. They're installed but they seem weak. We'll see what happens when pressure and heat are applied. I have worm clamps at the ready!

Next couple of posts will be about Weather Pack connectors.

Hal

Thanks "Hal"...

Do the Gates clamps have to be installed before attaching the hose to the pipes? I've got to many (at one time I counted all the connections, there were 27) hose connections now to go back and replace with the Gates, however I love the looks and I think they have a definite benefit with the gate clamps expand and contract with the hose.

I'll be axious to hear about your Weather Pack connectors... seems like you're on the cutting edge of all things.

Thanks,

Mitch,

Yes they do. They're continuous bands. Think of them like really thick heat shrink tubing.

Hal

Hal, Tnx for the reply, are you installing an oil cooler... I installed an aircraft oil cooler, but if I'm in 90 degree plus temps, stop and go traffic I can get some high oil temps. 240 degrees plus, I pushed 250, but never more and only for short periods. Sometimes I have better water temps than oil temps, not sure why.

I would install a larger oil cooler with a fan, but haven't figured out where to install it...

Mitch,

Not planning an oil cooler. We'll see how it goes.


Hal

We got a lot done this weekend but, again, most of the work doesn't really show in pictures.

I think that's why you never see these projects close out.

We installed the two relays for the water pump and fuel pump.

We made grounding cables and battery cables and ran them where they needed to go. I decided to relocate the battery to the footwell behind the passenger seat. I'll have the upholsterer build a carpeted box that disguises it. This is the optimal position for this install because the a/c heater unit will bolt to the top of the smugglers box making battery access nearly impossible. With it behind the passenger seat, I can easily reach the cutoff switch. I'm using a rennline box but I haven't received the new bottom plate to convert mine from the smugglers box kit so the battery is just sitting on the floor for now.

We also extended a small bundle of 4 wires that were wired to the positive terminal on the original installation. We routed this through the bulkhead in front of the clutch pedal and under the carpet down the side of the tunnel.

We put both relays in the engine compartment. The positive side is wired to the charging post on the alternator. That's a straight 6 gauge wire back to the battery, so it should be fine. The ground is bolted to the engine.

The signal wires for both only reach up to the drivers seat, so that'll take a pigtail.

With all of this we were at the point that we could spin the motor with the starter.

Since the motor has been sitting for awhile (check the original date on this thread!), we decided we'd prelube it.

I purchased a Melling Pressurized Pre-Lube tank. You drain all the oil out of the engine, fill the tank and using compressed air, you pump it through the engine with compressed air.

While it's pumping you rotate the crank one full turn by hand (remove the plugs), this will get oil to flow through the oil holes on the crankshaft and hopefully prevent you from jerking them out of their seats when you crank the motor the first time.

The general consensus among the members on this board that have put LS engines in their car is to buy a new one because all the junkyard motors eat their bearings shortly after being returned to service. I think this is the reason why. Pre-lubing a 350 is easy, you just use an old distributor and a drill. Since the gerotor pump on an LS is crank driven that won't work. The Melling is the way to do it on LS engines (and Coyote motors, too, BTW). We'll see how it works. If this engine spins a bearing, I guess we'll know. (I need everyone to think happy LS thoughts for me. Thanks)

After we turned it by hand, we spun it up with the starter. We'll do it again this way when we start it.

We also tested the relay for the water pump. We didn't run it for more than a second or two but it was enough to verify that it works as advertised. The fuel pump wasn't plugged in up front so we didn't test that.

I'm thinking one more day like Saturday and it'll be running.

Here's a youtube video of the prelube and the starter spinning the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXyTDe_NBp8&feature=youtu.be

I can't embed video's sorry. At least the link works.

Hal

I felt bad about not posting any pictures two weekends in a row, so here's a shot of the two relays.

The hole on the right is the one the oil tank sat in when it had a porsche motor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1437333788.jpg

Spent the day making connections.

Made up the relay connections for the radiator.
Made the cables that run back to the battery for the radiator fans and the trigger wire.
Finished the battery cables and the battery mounting.
Made up all the connections for the computers hot-all-the-time wire.
Made up a relay for the computers ignition wire.
Sorted out which wire to use for the ignition relay trigger wire.
Spent a bunch of time running from store to store buying the right color wire and all the tiny stuff you need to make it look right.

Here's some pictures of the detail work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1437873692.jpg

A couple of examples of connection quality. The hose is a fuel line. It's all Russell. Russel Pro-Classic II hose with Russell crimp-on ends.

The electrical connector is from the radiator fans. The two outer wires are 10 Gauge power lines - 1 per fan/relay/fuse. The middle two are the signal/trigger wires for the relay. I decided to feed them back to the computer which has a Fan1/Fan2 pair of wires. The Wires are wrapped in nylon mesh (expect for this end).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1437873713.jpg

Here's the battery mounted on the floorboard behind the passenger seat. It's in a rennline mount that I trimmed and leveled with with delrin bushings.

This is before all the connections were made up. I just tried to take a picture of it, but it's kind of a mess with all the tools on the floor and the battery charger plugged in.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1437874310.jpg

We have to install the fuel tank, the heater/ac and the radiator tomorrow - then it's crankin' time!!!

H

Nice work, we've got to get together for a show and tell... I got tickets last week for Rennsport V, I'll drive my car to the show. Hopefully they'll let me in the gate... LOL

Yes we do. Next weekend should be starting weekend. Need to post the update from Sunday.

Sunday. Let's see. What did we do?

We started the day by troubleshooting turn signals. They mostly work. Still no brake lights.

Most of the day was spent running lines around the front trunk.

We ran the fuel lines up through the center hole near the steering gear. We folded the body clamps onto them. Then we cut out the holes through the Rennline smugglers box lid a little bigger and ran the fuel lines through them with grommets.

The heater lines that come out of the crossmember are now routed under the gas tank and come up through the sheet metal to the left (as you look at it from the front of the car) of the smugglers box.

I noticed that the heater lines are now very vertical and constitute the highest point on the car. Even though this is now higher than the fill tank, I think it will work because I'm going to use a vacuum filler. I may need to put a bleed valve in the top line. If I do, that'll be easy. Once I figure out where to source a bleed valve.

We then put the radiator back in, plumbed it in and plugged it in.

At this point we were still pushing to start the car.

We were, in fact, 1 hose clamp short so there was no way it was starting.

We decided we would stop once the fuel tank was mounted.

We installed the tank and had trouble matching it up with the mounting holes I had cut earlier in the day. It bumped up against the radiator box. Ultimately, this was where we stopped.

This week I'll have to disassemble the radiator - again - and then re-bend the side shrouds to shorten them probably an inch. And, really, it's only an inch at the bottom. The top is fine. In essence, I'm just making the rear shroud slightly more vertical.

I've ordered a new top shroud from Renegade as the previous one was trashed by one of the shops that worked on it. I had them send me only the back part. I'm going to install a piano hinge so that I can get access to the radiator. Most of the guys that build these cars just leave the front wide open. Mine has the chevy bowtie grid on the front so I can't just reach in there.

here's a teaser photo. It's very similar to final but not final.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1438040657.jpg

Hal

First start!!!!

It runs!!! On 3 cylinders. Lol.

Oh well. At least it's running. Now we can get on with it.

Here's the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6b695zO278&feature=youtu.be

Hal