RSR LS Conversion

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by 77TARGAV8

Yes it is an iron block, air flow research 190 street heads, edelbrock pro flow xt fuel injection. 60 lb injectors on an aluminum motor plate. It is a rennagade kit. 1978 930 tranny. 2 70mm turbos. Fun car. Possible sale soon!

Why are you selling? Is it not fun?

I wonder why Renegade doesn't use a motor plate for the LS kit?

H

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by Bob Goding

NHS--Thanks for all the info and the inspiration! I'm getting closer and closer!!
A question,please--What diameter/bore size are the coolant pipes,?[and do they match the water pump fittings?]

I just sat down to order the hose clamps. I'm going to use those new Gates SB PowerGrips. I hate the look of jubilee clips; with the hose protruding through the little slots for the screwdrive and the unused end just hanging out there, I think they look terrible.

That's when I realized, I don't actually know what size they are. I'll have to go to the shop tomorrow. I think it's either 1 1/4" or 1 1/8". But whatever they are, they match the ends on the Meziere water pump.

I'm currently conflicted about what to do. Renegade gave me enough Gates Green Stripe to plumb the whole car, but I thought I might fab up some aluminum pipes to run the length of the car instead. But a friend that builds race cars and he says they'll crack as they vibrate and I should use stainless steel. But I don't want to use stainless steel because I'm worried about the electrolytic effect of connecting two different metals by an electrolyte (the coolant).

Dunno. I'll guess I'll use the Green Stripe. It's cheap and I have it already.

Renegade runs theirs down both sides of the car. I think I'm going to run both pipes down the same side of the car though. There's a really big speed bump in the alley behind my house. The car always scrubs it. If both pipes are on one side, I could always put that one side in the center gap of the speed bump and scrub the other side - the one without hoses.

H

[77TARGAV8]

I have the green stripe hose front to back, no problems so far. Car runs at 190 summer or fall so far.
The reason I might sell is some money I need for the house.
There is no car with a better fun factor! Its fast, handles well, gets a ton of attention and shocks the hell out of everyone. I have owned about 70 cars thru the years and I will be in tears if I have to sell. This is one of my favorites I have ever built.

[lin7310948]

i used aluminum tubing for part of the plumbing on both of my v8 conversions. i only use a short section on both sides. i thought about trying to use more but the cost to fabricate did not seem worth it. i have never had any trouble with the hose running down both sides snagging on anything. i would recommend that you route the hose through the front cross member properly reinforced rather than routing beneath.

[mkingham]

For what its worth, I could not get the cooling hoses to route through the front suspension, and going under really seemed to leave them hanging out way too low. I have a 84, so the cross member up front is cast aluminum. I ended up routing the lines through the hot air ducts inside the body of the car.

Maybe lin7310948 will post a photo of his setup. I think he went THROUGH the front cross member and welded it back up for strength.

Mike

[77TARGAV8]

Mine go thru the front cross member also. I try and get a picture this weekend.

[Lukesportsman]

My Renegade set up ( a few years back) has the fans in front as pushers. As far as I know, this style fan never pushes as well as it pulls. Somewhat like fuel pumps always push better than suck. How are the current Renegade setups coming? Radiator capacity seems quite adequate since at speed, she cools. At idle after a drive, it maxes cooling capacity which leads me to think the cooling/forced air situation could be improved. I have SS braided hose currently under the car, but have always thought much like Elephant's oil lines that we are losing a huge heat sink with rubber hoses.

Doesn't it appear (not an engineer or expert on thermal dynamics) that an extra 20 feet especially on the rear to front run of Al tubing could radiate a lot of heat? Maybe with turbulence spirals internally or cooling fins ala transcooler or ps lines externally?

[lin7310948]

i dont have a picture of the hoses and the front crossmember. my hoses do not pass through the crossmember but rather attach to either side of the crossmember. i had the proper size tubing cut and welded into the crossmember and i attach the hose onto the tubing entering and exiting the crossmember.

[not_hans_stuck]

I have some al tubing that I'm going to pass through the crossmember. I also put in the through-body sway bar to get more clearance and declutter that part of the car.

I'm not actually sure how my fans are setup. I'll look today at the shop. I know they don't have a shroud around them and It think that's a mistake. I'll probably fab one before I install it.

Regardless of how Renegade set them up, I'll be installing them as pullers, though. I'm also fabricating duct work to go from the bumper mouth to the body. I'm going to make it out of aluminum sheeting but I might cover it with a carbon fiber "wallpaper".

I think I mentioned it before but I'm also using NPG coolant. It's non-propylene glycol, non-water, pet safe and track safe. It's supposed to do a much better job of cooling. We'll see. I was told the coolant will run hotter because it's evacuating more heat from the engine. It doesn't have that boundary layer that water does. It will also run at 0 psi since it's boiling point is so much higher.

H

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by not_hans_stuck

I just sat down to order the hose clamps. I'm going to use those new Gates SB PowerGrips. I hate the look of jubilee clips; with the hose protruding through the little slots for the screwdrive and the unused end just hanging out there, I think they look terrible.

That's when I realized, I don't actually know what size they are. I'll have to go to the shop tomorrow. I think it's either 1 1/4" or 1 1/8". But whatever they are, they match the ends on the Meziere water pump.

I'm currently conflicted about what to do. Renegade gave me enough Gates Green Stripe to plumb the whole car, but I thought I might fab up some aluminum pipes to run the length of the car instead. But a friend that builds race cars and he says they'll crack as they vibrate and I should use stainless steel. But I don't want to use stainless steel because I'm worried about the electrolytic effect of connecting two different metals by an electrolyte (the coolant).

Dunno. I'll guess I'll use the Green Stripe. It's cheap and I have it already.

Renegade runs theirs down both sides of the car. I think I'm going to run both pipes down the same side of the car though. There's a really big speed bump in the alley behind my house. The car always scrubs it. If both pipes are on one side, I could always put that one side in the center gap of the speed bump and scrub the other side - the one without hoses.

H

There are three sizes of hoses. 5/8", 1" and 1 1/4". The long runners are 1 1/4" and that's what feeds into the radiator at the front, the F-pipe at the back and the water pump outlet. The 1" hose conencts the water pump block offs to the water pump and F-pipe. The 5/8" is the heater hose. It run a couple of different places - from the F-pipe to the filler neck. From the filler neck to the, uh, ummm. I'll get back to you.

I'm blocking off all the passenger car crap. So no coolant through the throttle body. Only one PCV takeoff feeding to the throttle body. Just decluttering. And since the car isn't a daily driver and it doesn't snow in Houston, none of it seems particularly salient to me.

H

[911JeffS]

I also installed the coolant block offs up on the front of engine (rear of car) I have by passed the coolant through t- body. Not sure if this needs to be bled??

The PCV system is a work in progress though. The large single line goes to the brake booster up front. Then I have that splitter set up, not sure of the correct setup here, one line from valve cover to other valve cover then one to the TB and one to third valve cover fitting cover. Hal would you mind posting pix of your PCV setup?

I also wonder if its worth 1.25" of clearance to have the cross member drilled and fitted with a flared pipe for through cross member cooling. I'm on the fence there. I guess if you damage either hose you would have regrets for sure.

[Lukesportsman]

Huh, looked through the thread again and see the pic of fans and radiator. Looks like quality enough of a setup and are mounted on "hose" side so pullers. Maybe I'll ring them up on questions on my current setup. YES, I'd certainly like to see them shrouded better myself. I also like the concept of some of Derale's shrouds with flapper doors that would open if positive pressure was seen under speed. I'm installing Derale shrouded fans on two of my Mustangs currently. They quote 4k cfm of flow though amp pull is a down side for such power. Using the Braille endurance battery to help offset this with its ca 1375 @41lb penalty. Leaves 135 ah to ensure I get home.

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by 911JeffS

I also installed the coolant block offs up on the front of engine (rear of car) I have by passed the coolant through t- body. Not sure if this needs to be bled??

The PCV system is a work in progress though. The large single line goes to the brake booster up front. Then I have that splitter set up, not sure of the correct setup here, one line from valve cover to other valve cover then one to the TB and one to third valve cover fitting cover. Hal would you mind posting pix of your PCV setup?

I also wonder if its worth 1.25" of clearance to have the cross member drilled and fitted with a flared pipe for through cross member cooling. I'm on the fence there. I guess if you damage either hose you would have regrets for sure.

I sorted out my PCV and vacuum situation this weekend but I forgot to take a photo - Doh!.

Anyway, I'll describe. Since we're all 911/v8 guys - when I say left, I mean the drivers side. So...

I have early style valve covers. Therefore I have two elbow vents. I used the plastic Y that I kept from the original GM hoses and I made an aluminum hard line that went from the front (closest to driver) elbow to the rear Y. I connected it to the Y with one of the factory 1" connector hoses also salvaged from the original line. I then made another very short male to male connector out of the 5/16" al fuel line to connect the front of the Y to a normal 5/16" vacuum hose. This, I ran under the intake manifold to the front of the engine and plugged into the black plastic nipple on the passenger side of the mani right behind the throttle body.

There's another vacuum takeoff on the throttle body - this one went to the breather on the passenger side valve cover.

I connected the small nipple on the left side of the throttle body to the pressure regulator on the fuel rail.

The brake booster will connect to the giant vacuum takeoff on the back of the manifold which is now on the front of the engine (back of he car).

I think that should do it.

I'm bypassing the coolant flow-through on the throttle body. If it's too cold to start it, it's too cold to drive it. I am in Houston after all.

I'm almost ready to mount it up. I didn't like Renegade's solution to the oil pressure sending unit. They sent me a 1/8" NPT adapter and some brass crap from home depot. I'm sorry. There will be no brass fittings and no home depot on the car. Sheesh. Amateurs.

I bought a better male 1/8" NPT to male 1/8" NPT fitting from Swagelok - in steel. And I'm having a female 1/8" NPT to female 1/8" NPT, 10" high pressure braided line made up. I'll use that to relocate the sensor. So I'll spend $50 instead of $5 but it'll look like it was made of car stuff and not house stuff. Pictures next week.

H

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by Lukesportsman

Huh, looked through the thread again and see the pic of fans and radiator. Looks like quality enough of a setup and are mounted on "hose" side so pullers. Maybe I'll ring them up on questions on my current setup. YES, I'd certainly like to see them shrouded better myself. I also like the concept of some of Derale's shrouds with flapper doors that would open if positive pressure was seen under speed. I'm installing Derale shrouded fans on two of my Mustangs currently. They quote 4k cfm of flow though amp pull is a down side for such power. Using the Braille endurance battery to help offset this with its ca 1375 @41lb penalty. Leaves 135 ah to ensure I get home.

Interesting. I'll have to keep them in mind. I'm in a desert duty environment here - even though there isn't sand for 300 miles.

Tell me more about the Braille battery. I've been looking at those. Is there any special requirement for it? Can I put it on my batter tender? Can I get a jump from a normal car it if goes flat? How big and what does it weigh?

H

[not_hans_stuck]

Some progress has been made.

I cut out all the metal in the front end that wasn't needed. Before you guys go berzerk on me for cuttiing so much away, review the earlier pictures. I had a TRE oil cooler panel in it already and had to cut that out. So this is what's left.





In the last picture you can see that the v-tray is straight across, but that the cross-member to which it will be welded is not. Uh-huh.

It's kinda scary how much is cut away. A normal car wouldn't have this issue.

[not_hans_stuck]

Another thing that had to be removed for clearance was the batter tray.

Here it is removed and covered with tin-foil. The tin-foil will be my template.



Trimmed template.



Plasma cut



Popped some holes in the edges, fixed with cleco's and "adjusted" with a hammer and chisel.



Slather liberally with weld material.



And there you go.

Now on to the v-tray.




More to come...

H

[Lukesportsman]

Braille makes several "lines" of batteries including armored ones. I'm using their regular line in my cars. Li-Fe in the motorcycles which are impressively light. Li-Fe are quite expensive at car sizes so will hold off until technology proves itself and price comes down. If you've never picked up a Li-Fe battery, its like picking up CF or Mg for the first time, as it just doesn't register is "right" since it is lighter than you brain processed it being.

Li-Fe DO REQUIRE special chargers, their regular line can be trickle charged as usual. The Braille style battery advantages are not fluids, no orientation limitations, more amps per size do to reduced internal resistance, forgiving of discharge duty cycles and just plane quality of manufacturing.

I've never thought to use Al foil in all my years of fabricating. Always can pick up easy ideas on here.

[not_hans_stuck]

Interesting. So, the one you're using is the AGM battery?

[not_hans_stuck]

Welding done on the front pan. Still need to do the bracing across the opening.

I have something special in mind.

Here's the shots.

H

[ChrisP911]

Nice job, I am doing a Mits. 4g63 conversion. I like the RH rad kit, keep up the good work. More pics.. where did you place the electric water pump.