Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    
  Join us November 1st for Casino Night at the Pelican Parts Open House!
Benefiting LuMind - Research and Treatment for individuals with Down Syndrome
Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche Engine Conversion Tech Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Des Plaines, IL USA
Posts: 77
Boxster LS Conversion?

I saw the video of the Renegade Hybrids LS Boxster conversion. Has anyone else done this or has any further information on the swap? Seems like a no brainer as the radiators and other systems are already in place.

Thanks for any information you might have.
Old 05-21-2013, 02:40 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
George,

I'm doing a 996 Renegade engine swap... Renegades conversion parts are well done, however it's not a plug and play. If you're up for a project, then it's a great way to go.
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 06-05-2013, 06:30 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
I had Renegade install an LS7 for me in my 2004 Boxster and I love the result. The two things that most change the car (in my opinion) are the engine sound and higher engine compartment temps. Neither factor changes the car enough to be a detriment (again, in my opinion).

The engine sound is of course like a Corvette, particularly in the cabin; however, from the outside of the car it's not obvious, that is until you stomp on the gas. Then, there's no question the engine is no longer Porsche.

The LS7 runs hotter than the Porsche engine by 10 to 20 degrees. So, the centre console gets warmer than it did with the boxer engine and behind the seats get a little warmer than stock too. But as I said, it's not enough of a change to really consider it a negative.

On the other hand, the upside is tremendous. At any speed in almost any gear there is power and torque to spare. With the LS7 the tires break loose from time to time but traction is surprisingly good (mid-engine helps). Handling is exactly the same as it was before. At least if the handling has changed I haven't been able to notice it. I autocross the car and take it to track days as often as I can and can tell you the car is just plain faster now. The car still behaves the way it did before the swap and I now have the added benefit of being able to oversteer whenever I want. If the car understeers, a tap on the throttle brings the back end to where I need it.

Renegade spent quite a bit of time working on the parts for the kit. I know because my car was sitting in their shop waiting for them to finish engineering the pieces. I drove the car back home well over 1,000 miles without an incident and have been flogging the car since without any major issues. A loose wire led to an overheating issue at one event (the electric water pump stopped working) but it was an easy fix afterward.

All-in-all, I'm very happy with the change!

I would agree, though, that it's not plug 'n play swap. I don't think you'd need to be a genius to do the swap but it will take some cutting and welding, though there's not lots to cut 'n weld. Part of the firewall needs to move forward about 1.5 inches, meaning you loose a bit of leg room as well. The guys at Renegade seem quite helpful when you run into issues and they're developing installation instructions with lots of pictures. Perhaps in the next few months they'll have some good material available on their website or through their Facebook page.

Last edited by KerryLange; 06-24-2013 at 05:51 PM..
Old 06-24-2013, 05:41 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
Kerry,

Good post... keep us updated on how the LS7 is working for ya. I'm closing in on my installation, so far I've been very happy with the results. Renegade has been there for me every step of the way.
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 06-24-2013, 08:26 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Leland View Post
Kerry,

Good post... keep us updated on how the LS7 is working for ya. I'm closing in on my installation, so far I've been very happy with the results. Renegade has been there for me every step of the way.
Good to hear corroborating testimony! Renegade has been great to deal with.

Yes, I'll post back from time to time on how it's going.

BTW, I'd add that I really like the exhaust system Renegade did for me. If someone is converting using their pieces, they should also ask them to build a custom exhaust for it. They built a nice, trick system for me. It has a butterfly valve in the middle of an "X" crossover. Exhaust flows from the manifolds to one side of the "X" and, if the valve is closed, into the mufflers. However, when the butterfly valve is open, exhaust is free to flow to the other side of the X and it bypasses the mufflers, increasing power and loudness.

Last edited by KerryLange; 06-25-2013 at 10:37 AM..
Old 06-25-2013, 10:31 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 37
Kerrylange, What did you loose by switching? A/C, cruise anything like that? I have been toying with the idea. I have a 2002 Boxster S that I wouldn't mind having a V8 in, but it's a daily driver. With that IMS looming over my head, I think it might be worth it. That kit seems a little expensive though. I know I could build the mounts myself. Just don't know if I could handle the electronics.
Old 07-23-2013, 04:06 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
Ls swap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotanova View Post
Kerrylange, What did you loose by switching? A/C, cruise anything like that? I have been toying with the idea. I have a 2002 Boxster S that I wouldn't mind having a V8 in, but it's a daily driver. With that IMS looming over my head, I think it might be worth it. That kit seems a little expensive though. I know I could build the mounts myself. Just don't know if I could handle the electronics.
The costs do add up... It's a pretty bullet proof set up, I'm in the middle of tackling the wiring. I'm culling out all the non-used Porsche wiring. Renegade doesn't recommend that. I can't help myself... It turns out, I think... that the wiring isn't the bug-a-boo that I first thought. We'll see, stay tuned, film at eleven...

Candidly I think you would be better off buying Renegades kit, they've done all the work. For me there was enough stuff to deal with w/o having to engineer the motor mounts, etc. However your talents in fabrication might be a lot more than mine.

It's been a fun project, I've enjoyed tweaking where I think it needs to be upgraded. If you're just doing for a means to an end, then I would look at your costs and set a budget before you start.
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 07-23-2013, 08:06 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gnx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 9
How much did your lap times improve?

What size rims/tires are on the car?

Overall weight wet with fuel.... less driver?

can you share some pics of the conversion or a link?
__________________
'93 RX-7, LS7 427, T56 Magnum, 8.8" Cobra IRS, Ohlins, Holley HP EFI with TC, 575rwhp/2800lbs
165mph at Shift Sector 1/2 mile event
'97 BMW e39 turbo LS2 1000hp project
Old 08-26-2013, 05:34 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
LS Conversion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryLange View Post
I had Renegade install an LS7 for me in my 2004 Boxster and I love the result. The two things that most change the car (in my opinion) are the engine sound and higher engine compartment temps. Neither factor changes the car enough to be a detriment (again, in my opinion).

The engine sound is of course like a Corvette, particularly in the cabin; however, from the outside of the car it's not obvious, that is until you stomp on the gas. Then, there's no question the engine is no longer Porsche.

The LS7 runs hotter than the Porsche engine by 10 to 20 degrees. So, the centre console gets warmer than it did with the boxer engine and behind the seats get a little warmer than stock too. But as I said, it's not enough of a change to really consider it a negative.

On the other hand, the upside is tremendous. At any speed in almost any gear there is power and torque to spare. With the LS7 the tires break loose from time to time but traction is surprisingly good (mid-engine helps). Handling is exactly the same as it was before. At least if the handling has changed I haven't been able to notice it. I autocross the car and take it to track days as often as I can and can tell you the car is just plain faster now. The car still behaves the way it did before the swap and I now have the added benefit of being able to oversteer whenever I want. If the car understeers, a tap on the throttle brings the back end to where I need it.

Renegade spent quite a bit of time working on the parts for the kit. I know because my car was sitting in their shop waiting for them to finish engineering the pieces. I drove the car back home well over 1,000 miles without an incident and have been flogging the car since without any major issues. A loose wire led to an overheating issue at one event (the electric water pump stopped working) but it was an easy fix afterward.

All-in-all, I'm very happy with the change!

I would agree, though, that it's not plug 'n play swap. I don't think you'd need to be a genius to do the swap but it will take some cutting and welding, though there's not lots to cut 'n weld. Part of the firewall needs to move forward about 1.5 inches, meaning you loose a bit of leg room as well. The guys at Renegade seem quite helpful when you run into issues and they're developing installation instructions with lots of pictures. Perhaps in the next few months they'll have some good material available on their website or through their Facebook page.
Kerry, did Renegade keep your Cruise Control operational?
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 11-01-2013, 08:35 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Hey, sorry I haven't been around for awhile.

I agree with Mitch. The costs do add up, particularly if you want to do it right. And guess what? Nobody doesn't want to do it right. So, it's not cheap but in my opinion it's still worth it.

Everything works as it did in the car before. I didn't have cruise control but I don't see why you couldn't keep it. The accelerator pedal is replaced with a GM unit but they have an ECU for the GM engine and the two systems talk to each other. However, Renegade would be the source to ask.

Rims and tires are stock for the street (Michelin PSSs). I have a set of Fiskes and a set of Hoosiers for the track. If I recall, I think the fronts are 225s and the backs are 245s. It hasn't seen nearly enough track time yet.

I have no idea about weight but it's not going to vary too much from stock. The Fiskes take a couple of pounds off but that's about it.

Regarding engine mounts, that was actually a bit of a deal for Renegade. The first ones they tried flexed too much and they replaced them with some tougher units before putting the kit into production.

There were some issues with the axles on the car. The first set installed (which were upgraded units) were toast after about 4 months of regular driving (it's a daily driver), some autocrosses, and a couple of track days. They went on my way down to Nevada for an event.

Anyway, they were replaced with even better units and those axles failed as well. However, they tracked the problem down to how the CV joints were put together (they'd sent them out to some "experts" for some special attention). As the axles heat up the air expanded and the boots came off or blew off. Then the grease flew off and gradually the joints ground to nothing. Part of the issue was that the rubber boot holding everything inside was too full with grease and there was no way for excess air to leave the boot.

I'm now back in Victoria and with regular Porsche axles that appear to be just fine, despite the fact they're not the skookum units. Renegade is sending up a new set of the HD units that I'm going to install myself.

The other issue for me has been cooling. However, I don't think it's a problem with the kit. I think it's an issue with my car. At one point, someone (no, not me) put some of the green anti-freeze in with the orange GM stuff. It turned to goo and plugged the engine. It's been cleaned out and should be fine now.
Old 01-07-2014, 06:07 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
KerryLange, Regarding the cruise control, I'm sure it's doable, it's a matter of finding someone who understands the relationship between the GM gas pedal and the Porsche ECU. That's one of those issues that should be plug and play, but so far Renegade doesn't know and doesn't feel it's a priority.

I borrowed some electronic scales today and will weigh my car this evening. It should be pretty easy, just put the car on the lift and let it down on the 4 scales. Renegade never said exactly what the weight would be, they seemed to indicate it would not weigh any more and because the accessories were on the bottom of the LS motor you had a lower center of gravity.

I hadn't heard about the axle problem, the problem isn't induced by hard acceleration, but just highway use? Are the axles the same between the 3.4 and 3.6 motors?
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 01-08-2014, 08:20 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Regarding the axles, it appears to be an isolated issue. The prototype Boxster and the one completed after mine both have not had axle problems so far. The prototype Boxster is a track car with a more powerful LS7 in it (probably around 600 hp). I know the one after mine has been really put through it's paces as Scott at Renegade drives that one periodically. If you've ever driven with him, you know any car he drives has to be in top shape or it would fail. He's a great driver (one of PCA's senior instructors) and one who knows how to drive at the limit and does all the time.

We think it was a combination of issues that broke the axle and it didn't break dramatically. Rather, it appears the boot failed, axle grease flew off and gradually wore the CV joints to nothing. When the axle failed at the track it was a quality unit but improperly prepped. The angle of the axles is greater than stock; however, it's not anywhere the angle on other high performance applications. So, it's probably not hard acceleration but probably the miles and lack of grease over time.

BTW, Boxsters don't have 3.6 engines. Early Boxster Ss had 3.2 engines and newer ones have 3.4.

Last edited by KerryLange; 01-13-2014 at 11:19 AM..
Old 01-13-2014, 11:16 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2
I had spoken to Scott a few days ago, I was trying to see if there was any real possibility for a "budget" conversion. Apparently it would be possible with a vortec engine and some physical mods to the engine lid. I'm wondering what you guys thought of that? I am currently window shopping to see if I have find a LSx engine for relatively cheap (1-2k) in Texas, but we will see.

The only other options I've seen so far has be: Subie engine and Audi V8.. pretty limited, rightly so.

I would greatly appreciate any advice/comments on how I could go about a budget swap when I redeploy back to the states.

Mitch, I see you're in TX. How did you go about procuring all the materials you needed? If you don't mind of course!

Take it easy!

**Edit**
I have a 2002 Boxster S engine is still good (good to possibly sell right?)
Old 02-25-2014, 10:04 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
Budget Conversion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by youssa View Post
I had spoken to Scott a few days ago, I was trying to see if there was any real possibility for a "budget" conversion. Apparently it would be possible with a vortec engine and some physical mods to the engine lid. I'm wondering what you guys thought of that? I am currently window shopping to see if I have find a LSx engine for relatively cheap (1-2k) in Texas, but we will see.

The only other options I've seen so far has be: Subie engine and Audi V8.. pretty limited, rightly so.

I would greatly appreciate any advice/comments on how I could go about a budget swap when I redeploy back to the states.

Mitch, I see you're in TX. How did you go about procuring all the materials you needed? If you don't mind of course!

Take it easy!

**Edit**
I have a 2002 Boxster S engine is still good (good to possibly sell right?)
My only thought is "budget in", budget out"... Maybe for a track car, but if you want to replace the road going features of the Porsche I would do it right.

I was able to get a lot of materials and parts from my local Car-Quest store. The counterman there was a hot rod guy and really helped me to find the right hoses, and other parts. I also did a big business with UPS and FedEx.

That seemed to be the biggest problem with the conversion, I was always waiting for the right part. Renegade only sells the kit, but there's no instructions or a list of parts needed. They say that every installation is different, I'm not sure this is completely true since all the conversions share some commonality.

However, I have no disappointments, the performance is "breath taking", the LS engine is a fine piece of work, bullet proof... unlike the Factory Porsche engine.
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 02-26-2014, 09:18 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by youssa View Post
I had spoken to Scott a few days ago, I was trying to see if there was any real possibility for a "budget" conversion. Apparently it would be possible with a vortec engine and some physical mods to the engine lid. I'm wondering what you guys thought of that? I am currently window shopping to see if I have find a LSx engine for relatively cheap (1-2k) in Texas, but we will see.

The only other options I've seen so far has be: Subie engine and Audi V8.. pretty limited, rightly so.

I would greatly appreciate any advice/comments on how I could go about a budget swap when I redeploy back to the states.

Mitch, I see you're in TX. How did you go about procuring all the materials you needed? If you don't mind of course!

Take it easy!

**Edit**
I have a 2002 Boxster S engine is still good (good to possibly sell right?)
Hi there, I have been researching the LSx ==> Boxster swap for some time now and am also looking at "cheap" possibilities. I have found that the truck engines like the LM4 and L33 give the best bang for the buck.
Old 02-26-2014, 10:47 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felixand View Post
Hi there, I have been researching the LSx ==> Boxster swap for some time now and am also looking at "cheap" possibilities. I have found that the truck engines like the LM4 and L33 give the best bang for the buck.
Hey Felix,

I've come across blogs/guides/forums, where they take a L33 and modify it so that it can be used in a car application, rather than Truck. Have you started your conversion yet?

I'm still in the researching (like mad) and window shopping phase, but it seems like an L33/5.3L vortec will be a way to go for a budget build, they are plentiful in central texas!

Davey

Last edited by youssa; 02-27-2014 at 01:39 AM..
Old 02-27-2014, 01:37 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: birmingham mi
Posts: 15
no photo journal?

Has anyone seen any photos documenting the Renegade Boxster S conversion? I would like to see how much sheet metal is cut, how the stiffness is regained, how the exhaust goes in, where you mount stuff, how you lift the LS3 into the Boxster, how you mount the tranny, how much fabrication is left to the installer, how much of the accessories are Boxster and how much are corvette, etc...
The power steering kit is optional; if you don't buy it how is the steering?
I was surprised the Renegade website has so little info. It's pretty hard to know if I'm up for the project without knowing what the project entails. Mine is a stock 2001 986 S 6-speed - I can't believe converting it is much different than converting any other 986 S.
Actually, a nice photo build sequence would be fascinating even if I didn't have a blown 986 S sitting around.
Old 02-27-2014, 09:20 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,761
Garage
Porsche Water Temp Gauge...

I'm down to one sticky issue with my LS3-996 C4S conversion... the water temp gauge will fault every so often. It never does it the same way twice, sometimes I can drive it a mile, the next time I can drive it 100 miles. If there is any similarities to the faulting it's when you stop the car and restart it after sitting awhile.

Renegade says they are looking into a fix, anyone out there that has had the same problem? I can re-set the fault and restore the temp gauge with my Durametric or OBDII reader, but that's a pain since you have to turn the engine off to erase the fault.

If you need one instrument working, the water temp would have to be high on your list. I'm planning a trip at the end of the month and I don't want to have to be stopping every 100 miles and reset the temp gauge.

Thanks,
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 05-10-2014, 04:55 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 3,964
Garage
2006 PORSCHE CAYMAN S for sale in MD - WALDORF, Lot 19476104
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s 74 iroc look turbo 1977 930 engine sc cams DFL, Combustion chamber coatings 915.61 trans garret gt30r .82 a/r obx headers andial intercooler WMI system MSD6al two carrera coolers 1bar spring Magnaflow muffler.
Old 05-12-2014, 01:22 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Any updates?
Old 07-14-2014, 07:35 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Old 07-14-2014, 07:35 PM
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:01 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.