Backdate Trend...Will it Last?

[speednme1]

So how long do you guys think this backdate trend will last? Don't get me wrong I dig many of the cars that are built but don't understand the money some are getting. Some are just cosmetics and nothing more, no suspension, no more power and maybe a decent interior. Singer was not the creator of the backdate but many try too hard to be like them, which I think is silly. I applaud those outfits (and persons) that go to the extreme to make their vision their own and not another Singer-like 911. I rather see a 964 modified with all the goodies but left looking like a 964. What gets me is that many will criticize a modified 930 or 911 but their tongues hit the floor when they see a backdate....and not a very well done backdate. I wonder if some of these backdates will suffer value down the road. I guess time will tell.

[hda]

Its already over

[nathanbs]

Some definitely will due to quality and it’s far from over

[pnut_lee]

I agree it’s far from over. The look of an early car with the drive-ability of a later car is no different than people building brand new houses with older architectural details. The key being that at the end of the day the new house actually looks like an old house with modern amenities. I would guess there will always be a market for these cars.

[JMS935]

I never got the fad, I don’t even like the look of the early 911, so there’d be no reason for me to backdate anything to that body style. I’d bet that many of these builds will depreciate at a much quicker rate over the years.

[speednme1]

I do like the look...as I dig the long hood cars but what I don’t get is the price that some sell for. It’s funny, a couple of years ago I was a Classic car dealer and the owner was selling backdated 911 as if they were candy. He was getting upwards of $160k+. The car had body, wheels and interior done. Suspension was from a stock 3.2 as well as the engine. The seller was amused that the cars were bringing in that kind of money. We agreed that I wasn’t the only one who thought the prices were crazy..lol

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by speednme1

I do like the look...as I dig the long hood cars but what I don’t get is the price that some sell for. It’s funny, a couple of years ago I was a Classic car dealer and the owner was selling backdated 911 as if they were candy. He was getting upwards of $160k+. The car had body, wheels and interior done. Suspension was from a stock 3.2 as well as the engine. The seller was amused that the cars were bringing in that kind of money. We agreed that I wasn’t the only one who thought the prices were crazy..lol

You actually like the look and thought it was crazy, so imagine how insane one thinks of this trend if they’re not even a fan of the long hood 911s.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by speednme1

I do like the look...as I dig the long hood cars but what I don’t get is the price that some sell for. It’s funny, a couple of years ago I was a Classic car dealer and the owner was selling backdated 911 as if they were candy. He was getting upwards of $160k+. The car had body, wheels and interior done. Suspension was from a stock 3.2 as well as the engine. The seller was amused that the cars were bringing in that kind of money. We agreed that I wasn’t the only one who thought the prices were crazy..lol

On the flip side I’m building one now that the parts and materials will amount to over $200k and then there’s about 800-1000 hrs of labor so not every back date is equal

[Matt Monson]

I don't see it ending. There's a new generation that likes the look and there's a ton of G bodies they can do it with. For a lot of them, just the look will be enough. An SC with some glass fenders and bumpers and a duck is way lighter than stock, drives better, and looks vintage. What's the downside? None.

[nathanbs]

Just wait until the short hood builds start to sell for a lot and there will be an entire short hood market as well

[Matt Monson]

Wait for what? They do quite well on their own too. Rally style g bodies are selling great as are Sc-RS and RSR look IB cars.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Wait for what? They do quite well on their own too. Rally style g bodies are selling great as are Sc-RS and RSR look IB cars.

Not to the point where a solid build can be a profitable venture to build and sell. Some really high dollar builds are being commissioned but if/when hits the market it’s for less than half of what’s invested into it

[Matt Monson]

Keen has a waiting list. So does Kelly Moss. Accumoto builds have changed hands a few times right around build cost. It's a healthy market for builders and I don't think they will depreciate in the way you think.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

On the flip side I’m building one now that the parts and materials will amount to over $200k and then there’s about 800-1000 hrs of labor so not every back date is equal

You're correct not every backdate is equal...which was one of my points. Slapping a wide body with some fiberglass parts may be cool but what justifies the $150k ask? Some builders go to a great extent to build beautiful examples with thought and execution that include the entire car..not just the exterior, wheels and some interior. Some builds just look weird...almost like a bootleg backdate. My previous 930 would have blown the doors off most of these backdates in every department. I left no stone unturned. It was a better car all around. Sadly I doubt it would have exceeded the $150k price tag that some of these backdates are getting....I just don't get it.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Keen has a waiting list. So does Kelly Moss. Accumoto builds have changed hands a few times right around build cost. It's a healthy market for builders and I don't think they will depreciate in the way you think.

How much approx are the builds that you are referencing?

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by speednme1

You're correct not every backdate is equal...which was one of my points. Slapping a wide body with some fiberglass parts may be cool but what justifies the $150k ask? Some builders go to a great extent to build beautiful examples with thought and execution that include the entire car..not just the exterior, wheels and some interior. Some builds just look weird...almost like a bootleg backdate. My previous 930 would have blown the doors off most of these backdates in every department. I left no stone unturned. It was a better car all around. Sadly I doubt it would have exceeded the $150k price tag that some of these backdates are getting....I just don't get it.

Yeah I hear you for sure and was my motivation to build a “proper” RSR style build whether backdate or not I just can’t enjoy so many of these builds because I get distracted by the flaws. I agree with you on your 930 and that’s what I’m discussing with Matt is that I have yet to see a custom short hood, including 930s resell for $200+ when we have all seen custom longhoods sell for $250+ quite often and if we bring Singer into the mix then $850k in Monterey at this month’s auction.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

How much approx are the builds that you are referencing?

From what I remember, an Accumoto steeet build is around $325k. Their racecars are $100k or so less. The Keen (built by Goldcrest) and KMR cars are more in the $150-250k range I believe. Now that I think about it I think a KMR car was auctioned at Monterey. Though it may have been one of their old numbered 993 RSR builds. If I remember I’ll look for it next time I’m on here while at my desk.

[JMS935]

There might be only one of these backdated brands that can command at or above their original build prices on the resale market - it’s Singer. Even an AccuMoto build recently hit the resale market on pcarmarket, and it was only bid up to 130k, even AccuMoto themselves were only willing to pay 115k for it. Jeez! Talk about diminishing your own brand, what a dumb bid to be making, especially when you should be well aware that it’s definitely under the reserve. If you’re AccuMoto and you are bidding on your own build, your bid should represent more than fire sale values. Wtf. The seller is looking for 160k on a 2k mile barely used build, and can’t get it. That’s the much quicker depreciation rate that I’m talking about. This car has probably lost 150-200k give or take in only 2k miles since it was built. That’s a massive loss, far worse than any new car even. That’s what Nathan is talking about, that you can’t get back anywhere near what you put into these builds, well unless it’s a Singer.

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/deal-tank-Porsche-Turbo-RSR-Outlaw-1984-Carrera/

[Macroni]

Can’t see ever having enough money to understand any part of the high end backdated reality. I would first be all over a Euro Carrera or RS, 75 or 89 Turbo, 89/94 speedster, 356 coupe or cab..... give them to me stock......

[Matt Monson]

Sometimes a car is built too much to the customer's tastes. That Carrera requires someone who wants a bit of a sleeper. And it's got some weird design mix n match going on. Early gauges and handles and trim etc. No rocker trim, but it's a G body with a turbo in it. But it hasn't been properly flared out. While Accumoto's build quality is there the composition of the design elements is a hot mess. That car is going to take forever to sell, even at half price.