Name That Price - An Engine Rebuild

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It feels like the 80s and the rise of the yuppies. But less coke.

Let's remember what happened after that run up, in 1987. I was there in the middle of it and it wasn't pretty.

Then the early 90's, just not as bad.

Or 2006. I was in the middle of that one too. I myself got caught up in that deal. I was lucky to work my way out of a very bad situation back then. Lawyers and banks. Ugh.

Quite honestly, it feels more like the one in 2006, today. Irrational exuberance, out of control spending and nasty inflation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going to happen. In fact, it's happening right now. Just look at how the stock market has behaved since January. And Unemployment. And Real Estate, again.

Don't do anything rash. Be smart. Spend wisely.
This one will pass too.

[Matt Monson]

I just mean the lifestyle and attitudes. Fast and free living large. And to be honest, I think there’s some nostalgia about that time, by Gen Xers who watched it growing up.

I’ll leave the economic and other stuff for parf.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Let's remember what happened after that run up, in 1987. I was there in the middle of it and it wasn't pretty.

Then the early 90's, just not as bad.

Or 2006. I was in the middle of that one too. I myself got caught up in that deal. I was lucky to work my way out of a very bad situation back then. Lawyers and banks. Ugh.

Quite honestly, it feels more like the one in 2006, today. Irrational exuberance, out of control spending and nasty inflation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going to happen. In fact, it's happening right now. Just look at how the stock market has behaved since January. And Unemployment. And Real Estate, again.

Don't do anything rash. Be smart. Spend wisely.
This one will pass too.

Agreed. Only the bubble is bigger now considering the inflated cost of everything.

It's crazy though. It's like no one cares what things cost.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I just mean the lifestyle and attitudes. Fast and free living large. And to be honest, I think there’s some nostalgia about that time, by Gen Xers who watched it growing up.

HEY! I'm a Gen X'r .

[Matt Monson]

So am I Nick. No generation is monolithic. But I do think it captures a large percentage of the people buying these things. People buying 6 figure toy cars aren’t worried about the cost of bacon or beef. Obviously not all of us are doing that good.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Agreed. Only the bubble is bigger now considering the inflated cost of everything.

Cabbie…I’m a GenXer too…I did really enjoy Grand Theft Auto Vice City…<wink>

We are facing a series of cascading events…COVID, Chinese and global supply chain BS, inflation and now Russian oil looped in.

I spoke with the shop today, and parts prices are WAY up…much having to be sourced directly from Europe. They also said the splitting of the case really escalates the cost. The shop also has to sub out a few parts of the process.

$17-22K is gone, but this may still be a premium moment. Definitely not looking to buy a house in this market. A Dyno pull currently puts the car at 186 hp at the wheels…it is chipped and has an M&K exhaust system. My hope is that the shop does it right…with the right parts…and I get a motor capable of 240+ at the wheels.

[Glenfield]

40hrs at $200-250 an hour was labor on a full rebuild in the Midwest. I’d wager that’s up 20% bc cost of living is up 10% compounding, and mechanics know what’s going on over at BaT. I’d have said 1.5x that for parts but obviously there’s a huge range depending on which parts. I think a bigger problem is the dearth of quality mechanics, even if you do have the dollaridoos to spend.

Big Weimar Republic vibes right now. On more than just the economic front sadly.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

40hrs at $200-250 an hour was labor on a full rebuild.

I don’t think the labor rate is as high as you say…the rate in my quote is in the low one hundreds…but 60 hrs.

[Macroni]

Reality is engines and their builds are escalating as fast as cars.

I was looking at a 911/83 engine last week that needed to be re-commissioned for $60K; which meant fully installed the costs would be between $70,000 and $80,000 w/o shipping.
911/83 Complete Engine

The same proposition 8 years ago; the budget at the time, fully installed, was $50,000.


Here is an S engine for $45,000
FS: ‘72 2.4 S MFI Engine


But there is nothing cooler than a modified engine......

[MrBonus]

Feels like so many/most are priced out of tip top running cars now. I feel like the adage when I started in the air-cooled world in the late 2000s was to keep 10k around at any given moment for a major repair. That number feels like it's 30 - 40k today.

Hell, I'm rethinking my reseal. The car runs great; it just sweats oil from all the places. I may just have the 901 rebuilt and have any of the easy-to-reach areas like the return tubes replaced and just enjoy it. It's just a hot rod and I feel somewhat stupid dropping 25-30k into a car that's a mash-up of period and non-period/model correct parts.

[Macroni]

Singer engine purchase price

PERFORMANCE
ENGINE: 4.0L --- $85,000
CAMS: Big -
INTAKE: Ceramic Plenum (4.0) -
TUNE/ECU: Standard MoTeC -
CATS: High Flow -
EXHAUST: Titanium --- $25,000


https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/singer-quotreimaginedquot-9116671/

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Singer engine purchase price

PERFORMANCE
ENGINE: 4.0L --- $85,000
CAMS: Big -
INTAKE: Ceramic Plenum (4.0) -
TUNE/ECU: Standard MoTeC -
CATS: High Flow -
EXHAUST: Titanium --- $25,000


https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/singer-quotreimaginedquot-9116671/

Sweet, I'll take two.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Singer engine purchase price

PERFORMANCE
ENGINE: 4.0L --- $85,000
CAMS: Big -
INTAKE: Ceramic Plenum (4.0) -
TUNE/ECU: Standard MoTeC -
CATS: High Flow -
EXHAUST: Titanium --- $25,000


https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/singer-quotreimaginedquot-9116671/

That’s sweet, but apples to oranges, right?

[1979-930]

There are also a lot of trades throwing out "Go Away" prices because they are too busy.
I've stopped pricing all together because owners are still saying yes and the extra profit doesn't fix my labor shortage.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

There are also a lot of trades throwing out "Go Away" prices because they are too busy.
I've stopped pricing all together because owners are still saying yes and the extra profit doesn't fix my labor shortage.

Definitely could see that happening when talking budgetary numbers…in my instance it was after the motor was out and disassembled…

[mepstein]

We are charging $10K + parts for a standard 3.2 rebuild. Peter Dawe trained builder with dozens of 3.2’s under his belt. I will soon be listing a rebuilt 3.2 for $29,995 but we are happy to rebuild a customers engine or take a core for credit.

[911heaven]

Y'all be scaring me to death with all these high end rebuild estimates and for good reasons. First, there must be a dichotomization between an engine removed and installed by the builder with all essential parts vs just a stand alone motor rebuild. Storage in shop for a car, time etc. all adds up, and don't forget all the extra parts they may charge one for!

In my case it's the stand alone latter rebuild. Mine is in England Cambridgeshire at CTR Developments -
ever heard of them? It was meant to be home here almost 2 years ago, then came Covid to England big time. For all that time it escalated so the shop stalled bus. due to lock downs and their safety. Still to this day it's in limbo.

What scares me most is the tank in my Japanese yen exchange rate recently @ 20% or more, just since a month ago. The catch 22 is that on full strip, inspection and proper rebuild, no real estimate can be made until that happens. Engine was over revved on a track in Norway when throttle pedal got stuck for about 7-9 seconds. It bounced off the rev limiter for that long, blew some oil out of the catch tank. Ruf 3.4 BTR motor, angry engine as described, still runs but with a ticking sound, presumably up top end. 10,000 pounds is what I've saved and budgeted for, and that was sort of the quote. They still haven't started on it. The alternative is to have it shipped to Japan without rebuild and deal with it here. My gut says leave it with them, grin and bear it even on what it ends up costing. My reasoning for that is that I was introduced, told they are the best Porsche race engine builder in the UK, like a restaurant always booked, so I'm lucky to be there?!

Looking for advice from the Pelican brotherhood. Thank you in advance if there are any insights!

bernie

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by mepstein

We are charging $10K + parts for a standard 3.2 rebuild. Peter Dawe trained builder with dozens of 3.2’s under his belt. I will soon be listing a rebuilt 3.2 for $29,995 but we are happy to rebuild a customers engine or take a core for credit.

Do you all rebuild 2.7s?

I'm also in Wilmington.

[matt930s]

Really, that much to re-build a glorified VW engine?

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

Do you all rebuild 2.7s?

I'm also in Wilmington.

Yes. We can pick up and deliver either engine or entire car. Space for cars is very limited so we would probably drop engine and return roller while engine is getting rebuilt.
2.7's may differ in price depending on the amount of machining required to the case.

We also do 911, 914 & 915 trans.