Classic Car Rally as money moves to hard assets?

[Macroni]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1955-mercedes-benz-300sl-gullwing-11/

[NYNick]

Are you trying to make a point?

[Matt Monson]

Meh. Not even Porsche content.

[Macroni]

https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/po25_r0048/1966-porsche-906

Okay, Porsche content.

A 300SL Gullwing selling for $1M over is worth discussing.

Wonder what this will sell for?

But if there are better things to discuss feel free to ignore....

[Unobtanium-inc]

I'm seeing buyers not going all out because of what's happening in the stock market and overall economy. Had a buyer a few weeks ago looking at a high end project, he couldn't pull the trigger mentally because everything he was seeing. He's still looking but at about half of what I was asking for my car. Sure it sold to the next buyer in line and is en route to Europe, but if people were shooting for hard assets it would have sold to the first buyer.
Yes, million dollar cars might be trading higher, but I don't think any of us will see that, kind of like real estate in Monaco, it might be hot, who knows?

---Adam

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Macroni

https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/po25_r0048/1966-porsche-906

Okay, Porsche content.

A 300SL Gullwing selling for $1M over is worth discussing.

Wonder what this will sell for?

But if there are better things to discuss feel free to ignore....

I’m not an MBZ guy, and have no idea on their values. I’ll see myself out as I have very little interest in speculating what 1%ers are going to be doing with their money. It’s too parfy.

[Macroni]

Parfy?

This is a Market Discussion Forum. Obviously, discussions here do not stay solely focused on Porsche's. ( I cite the Where's Ronnie thread. ) Given the current economic situation I find it interesting on the impact to hard assets such as cars. We have seen these runs before; example RS's trading for $1M. I saw the MB sale and wondered if it was the start.

Disappointing.


https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/1021745-japanese-classics-hottest-bet-car-collecting-right-now.html

Matt..... No Porsche content here either.

[super9064]

I’m expecting a an increase in Porsche prices across the board, newer used cars and vintage. Tariffs on new Porsche’s and the plunge in the value of the dollar, the cost of European cars will be prohibitively expensive. In my opinion people will hang on to their current cars and not trade up, less cars on the mkt , higher prices. European enthusiasts will be looking at vintage cars in the US because they are significantly cheaper now.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Parfy?

This is a Market Discussion Forum. Obviously, discussions here do not stay solely focused on Porsche's. ( I cite the Where's Ronnie thread. ) Given the current economic situation I find it interesting on the impact to hard assets such as cars. We have seen these runs before; example RS's trading for $1M. I saw the MB sale and wondered if it was the start.

Disappointing.


https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/1021745-japanese-classics-hottest-bet-car-collecting-right-now.html

Matt..... No Porsche content here either.

I’m not trying to be critical, I’m just not interested. I don’t make or break the success of a thread around here. There are hundreds of members who can share their 2 cents. I just see the likelihood of the thread degrading, and thus why I said too parfy, for me.

The big difference between that thread and this one is that our members can afford those cars and a number of members actually own them. Fewer than 1% of our members can afford a gullwing or 906. And I personally don’t think what happens in the asset class of car collecting will have an impact on the price of Carreras and GT4s.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Macroni

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1955-mercedes-benz-300sl-gullwing-11/

Wonder where this one ended up?




[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads26/10000191271745429538
[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads26/10000191281745429538

[NYNick]

I think this premise is ill founded. I started a thread a few weeks back insinuating used imported cars may increase in value because of the tariffs, but it's way too early to think investment money will move to hard assets to protect devaluation in this unpredictable economy.

High end investment class car values don't react quickly to the stock market. The smart money is looking for bargains for those who are over leveraged. If you're one of those short money arbitragers, you live by the sword and die by the sword.

[Macroni]

I was thinking more about asset protection.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Macroni

I was thinking more about asset protection.

My idea of asset protection.

[zztot]

Few months ago I made comment about bubble……and article from Hagerty about price deterioration. You would think I had called someone’s mother a bad name.
To me there is a slowing in general..…..but no need to get pissy.
Nothing to celebrate but interested in other people’s observations. This was all pre tariff so suspect there will be some impact.
Since this is a Porsche forum seems that should be the subject……exotic MBZ feels like apples to oranges. Just sayin

[Cobalt]

Considering a MBZ 300SLR sold for $142M and the price of a regular 300SL is all over the map, I don't see how we can make any judgement based off one car selling for more than expected on BaT. Heck most of the Porsche's I see sell on BaT sell for far more than IMO they are worth. So many dogs and in some cases turds with fleas selling for way too much there. Although the buyer has become more savvy over the years and some of these cars are not moving and rightfully so.

I am selling my 100k mile 13 Ford raptor. 12 years ago I paid a little less than double of what I am being offered today and sites like carvana and carmax are increasing there offers weekly. I am up $1000 in 4 weeks from their initial offer. Which I consider quite fair. I am still seeing people IMO overpay for 964RS's with recent sales ranging from $290-$400k. We recently saw a 964 tip break new records at $114,500 and I don't see the market slowing. People are bing a bit more selective however I think it is just because the buyer has become more educated. The economic uncertainty has some impact but for the most part i see it as minimal currently. My friends are still seeing big $$ projects come into their shops and those that have the $$ aren't being so cagey about spending as some seem to claim from what I am seeing.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Considering a MBZ 300SLR sold for $142M and the price of a regular 300SL is all over the map, I don't see how we can make any judgement based off one car selling for more than expected on BaT. Heck most of the Porsche's I see sell on BaT sell for far more than IMO they are worth. So many dogs and in some cases turds with fleas selling for way too much there. Although the buyer has become more savvy over the years and some of these cars are not moving and rightfully so.

I am selling my 100k mile 13 Ford raptor. 12 years ago I paid a little less than double of what I am being offered today and sites like carvana and carmax are increasing there offers weekly. I am up $1000 in 4 weeks from their initial offer. Which I consider quite fair. I am still seeing people IMO overpay for 964RS's with recent sales ranging from $290-$400k. We recently saw a 964 tip break new records at $114,500 and I don't see the market slowing. People are bing a bit more selective however I think it is just because the buyer has become more educated. The economic uncertainty has some impact but for the most part i see it as minimal currently. My friends are still seeing big $$ projects come into their shops and those that have the $$ aren't being so cagey about spending as some seem to claim from what I am seeing.

True, the media is trying to convince the public that the economy is in the crapper, yet, stores are still crowded, roads are still crowded, hell, even the gas stations have crowded lots.
I too have noticed that when it comes to high end projects, people are still spending money, I have noticed locally, in the local high dollar zip code, lots that had been sitting, for years, are now being built on , and we are not talking cookie cutter houses, but large, prime riverfront , high dollar custom builds.

[voitureltd]

True for me, just sold a nice 78 930 to finish a few other 930 sitting unfinished, one for decades. Two are that you may know of from your area reportedly started in 1994 is a high performance 930S with factory parts you could not order it with when new over here that way, so assembled and painted over here with later mechanical performance work with parts by / from Mode also mentioned things done at some time by DRT (FL).
Another is a 77 930 upgraded by Butch Stokes Pembroke Fl (Racerbvd, do you Know of him?) when new, now just putting back on the original whale tail but leaving the original upgraded to around 400HP w/934 twin plug distributer & performance mechanics.
The third was originally built by Bob Norwood (holder of 137 Guinness world speed records) still very quick but after 20 years and 8K miles with two previous owners, first was AMAC extensively discussed on Pelican back then exercising the original 700 plus HP that was easy to over rev, so the motor was getting weak. Just seemed like a good time to get them finished for future use and while correct period parts are still obtainable.
Looks like others are also getting some of these that were performance driven that need things done back to nicer driving / concours condition.

[JGaz]

Its a tale of two markets.
You'll see guys who need the cash because their retirement take a hit sell their toys.
I'm in the market now for a 914, and all the people I talk too say the same thing "i need the money'

Then you'll see the uberwealthy buy things "on sale" that most couldn't afford.
That's the thing about the Uberwealthy - when money is cheap, they buy, when times are tough, they buy - they live in a different reality.

[techweenie]

Flight to hard assets may be a thing.

If so, the very top of the market cars are going to benefit. But as we've seen for over a decade, "projects" and "drivers" will get harder to sell.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Flight to hard assets may be a thing.

If so, the very top of the market cars are going to benefit. But as we've seen for over a decade, "projects" and "drivers" will get harder to sell.

Same thing has happened with the car market time and time again. A friend just picked up 2 project cars for reasonable money but the top end cars still increasing in value. After a year and some major work I suspect one of the project cars will be worth multiple of what he paid for it. Although it is a special Ruf. Not factory vin but sent to Ruf for the build. The color combo is killer.