Ridiculous market!

[christiandk]

Another example....... and just an example - not to dis the car in the ad or the owner.

FS: 1986 Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible

35k....**** me!

A lot of BS in the ad like most ads today. Dont tell me about Porsche history, how you guarantee that it will rise in value or how much you care about the car but just dont have space for it no more........!

I also noticed that a lot of members are starting to flip cars....nothing wrong with that but just stating it.

This is bottom of 9th........who will end up with the bag.

Have a nice weekend all!

[yelcab1]

I saw a non-original 110,000 miles M491 car for ... $55K. Seriously, who is kidding who?

[KNS]

The heater ducting in the engine compartment is all screwy - not correct for a 3.2, I'd like to see the underside of the engine. For the price it'd better be correct or have a real good explanation. Oops, that means we've already got stories.

Car presents nice otherwise.

[Skillet83]

Are you serious? Sound like a little girl that did not get asked to the senior prom. Relax. Market for these cars are strong. There are some prospectors out there. Called free enterprise. You can ask any price you want, either they sell or they do not. The market will handle that end. I hope they bring it.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by Skillet83

Are you serious? Sound like a little girl that did not get asked to the senior prom. Relax. Market for these cars are strong. There are some prospectors out there. Called free enterprise. You can ask any price you want, either they sell or they do not. The market will handle that end. I hope they bring it.

Agreed all this whining about cars being overpriced is getting to sound like sour grapes. People might as well say the same about the S&P, Warhol paintings or NYC real estate. Either you are in the game or you or not. My betting is prices will head a lot higher and the cars were wayyyy underpriced the last few years.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

I saw a non-original 110,000 miles M491 car for ... $55K. Seriously, who is kidding who?

Really, that specific car looks extremely good to me. The 3.4 engine rebuild is one of the few mods that adds significant value and it has recent Al Reed wheels etc. How much do you think a M491 with a recent pro 3.4 build that is black/black is worth out of interest?

[sm70911]

Originally Posted by Skillet83

Are you serious? Sound like a little girl that did not get asked to the senior prom. Relax. Market for these cars are strong. There are some prospectors out there. Called free enterprise. You can ask any price you want, either they sell or they do not. The market will handle that end. I hope they bring it.

Are you serious ? The ad for car in question is either omitting important details about whats been done mechanically, or, if not 'IMO' then unless there is about 15k in cash hidden under the seats its not worth close to the ask.

[1975porsche]

Price may be high but I have a friend looking at that car!

[Skillet83]

Originally Posted by sm70911

Are you serious ? The ad for car in question is either omitting important details about whats been done mechanically, or, if not 'IMO' then unless there is about 15k in cash hidden under the seats its not worth close to the ask.

My point exactly. What business is it of you to determine what a seller can ask for a car or product? You never know unless you ask. The market will determine!

[BlkM491]

For your information, this is a documented M491 with all paper work. You need to try and read what it says before making a statement you know nothing about.

[sm70911]

Originally Posted by Skillet83

My point exactly. What business is it of you to determine what a seller can ask for a car or product? You never know unless you ask. The market will determine!

Its got nothing to do with 'determining' what a seller can ask for a car, and everything to do with discussing what price a seller is asking. And guess what this is 'Marketplace discussion', do you need me to post the dictionary definition of those two words, and then put it in the context of this conversation ?

The OP thinks that is a ridiculous asking price for that 86 cab, based on the information provided and the pictures, frankly I agree.

[r-mm]

That 55k m491 blows my mind. All turbo look cars are confusing to me but remind me why you would not want a clean, real 930 for 40k then a nice budget for a modern turbo and efi if you so wish? Different strokes yes, and sure the motor sounds like a nice build but i dont get it.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by r-mm

That 55k m491 blows my mind. All turbo look cars are confusing to me but remind me why you would not want a clean, real 930 for 40k then a nice budget for a modern turbo and efi if you so wish? Different strokes yes, and sure the motor sounds like a nice build but i dont get it.

Totally agree. Why would a turbo-look price higher than a legit turbo?

I have not paid much attention to Turbo prices, or turbo-look for that matter.

What makes that m491 worth the cheddar?

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by COLB

Totally agree. Why would a turbo-look price higher than a legit turbo?

I have not paid much attention to Turbo prices, or turbo-look for that matter.

What makes that m491 with the cheddar?

Turbo Looks have often sold for as much as Turbos. This goes back to the 80s. Reason being that a lot of Porsche prospects were afraid of the Turbo. Not everyone who buys a 911 wants to go really fast or rebuild their engine at 90K miles...

[COLB]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Turbo Looks have often sold for as much as Turbos. This goes back to the 80s. Reason being that a lot of Porsche prospects were afraid of the Turbo. Not everyone who buys a 911 wants to go really fast or rebuild their engine at 90K miles...

Interesting. I presume the wider tires and suspension upgrades offer performance advantages, and are not purely cosmetic.

But I can't think of another model where the same value equation applies.

For example, BMW offers "sports" packages with "M" car styling cues - some like the ZHP even upgraded engine performance -- but even close physical clones don't even whiff M3 prices. Not an exact comparison, but I'm struggling to find one.

Not doubting it is true, just noting it is unusual.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by COLB

Interesting. I presume the wider tires and suspension upgrades offer performance advantages, and are not purely cosmetic.

But I can't think of another model where the same value equation applies.

For example, BMW offers "sports" packages with "M" car styling cues - some like the ZHP even upgraded engine performance -- but even close physical clones don't even whiff M3 prices. Not an exact comparison, but I'm struggling to find one.

Not doubting it is true, just noting it is unusual.

Count me in as someone who would prefer the turbo look without the turbo issues especially if its a convertible. As these cars age less and less people are buying for the performance anyway.

Regarding the specific M491 that 3.4 conversion adds a ton of value and it may in the real world drive nicer than a turbo. Best of both worlds.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

Count me in as someone who would prefer the turbo look without the turbo issues especially if its a convertible. As these cars age less and less people are buying for the performance anyway.

Regarding the specific M491 that 3.4 conversion adds a ton of value and it may in the real world drive nicer than a turbo. Best of both worlds.

No aircooled 911 will generally be worth more bucks with a modified engine, imo. (not counting in upgrades like hydraulic chain tensioner, studs, pop off etc.)

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by christiandk

No aircooled 911 will generally be worth more bucks with a modified engine, imo. (not counting in upgrades like hydraulic chain tensioner, studs, pop off etc.)

Respectfully I think the 3.4 is an exception. I have heard this from European dealers as well. Its the only accepted in period conversion (Max Morittz) and its totally hidden so the car appears visably stock. If done with Mahle and all else is stock (cases/numbers) its totally legit IMHO.

Maybe the only other example is a legit ST or RS build engine on a stock 2.2/2.4.

I presonally would pay more for a car with this conversion. I think it adds a clear 10k if done recently on a stock 3.2 with Mahle by a pro outfit like supertec. I am talking full rebuilt to 3.4.

On the other hand I agree things like different engines, PMO's etc totally devalue a car.

[Matt Monson]

I agree with white rabbit. If the car were a '70 S with a 3.0 swap, sure that's a hit. But if that same '70 had a 2.5l ST spec engine built on the original case there is value there. Period correct mods like that don't detract from the value and with the right provenance can add value.

I've seen a couple of old Andial built 3.4's sell in the $15-20k range for just the engine. I wouldn't pay $55k for any turbo look car. But the engine has nothing to do with my thinking there.

[Skillet83]

sm, once again, you make my point. It is a discussion, not a rant against a price point. Do not have a problem if you think a car is overpriced. Has been fun as well as interesting to see what has been happening and talking about it. Are you bitter? Why the tude? There are some crazy things happening with these cars, fun to talk about them. No reason to bash. Do not lose sight of the real thing here, these cars are very cool to some. Have fun and enjoy them.