2.4 T possibilities...

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Throwing it out there... 1972 911 T 2.4 MFI, my little dream car.

Shocks, tie rods, braking system, ignition system, wheels, cosmetics, interior etc, etc have already been done - existing engine is solid and reliable.

Love everything about the car, would just like a little more 'ooomphh'. Don't have the budget (or the medication) required for engine transplants, and anyway I like the 'little' engines. Hopefully will have a couple of thousand or so to waste away on the object of my desire, any recommendations?

Thinking of losing the heat exchangers (they are a bit rusty and anyway, I live in Florida) and fitting headers and a muffler but don't want the car to be obnoxiously loud. Would like to keep the MFi as I have had no problems with it.

Any advice on top end tuning? Cams, pistons? Costs? Car needs to be reliable as it is my daily driver.

Hoping for something, just don't know what.

Many thanks to the Board

304065 · 07-09-2003, 08:42 AM

If you keep the MFI you need at least the port side heat exchanger to run the thermostat. The factory race cars did away with it and set mixture with a knob, and Roland Kunz once posted that another solution was to put a 12v bulb in the thermostat housing, that would heat up after the car was started and operate the thermostat that way. In any case, headers will do nothing on a stock T motor and will probably hurt low-end torque across the board. Go with SSIs and a factory dual-in dual-out sport muffler, the back pressure keeps the torque high and the sound will thrill you with every tear to the redline, but keep the neighbors happy.

Internal engine mods like S cams and the pistons and jugs to match, even if you are doing the work yourself, are beyond budget.

How about some 50-series tires to lower your overall gearing, which will provide an acceleration and handling advantage to match your suspension mods?

BK911 · BK911's Garage

Even something as basic as changing the pistons to raise compression gets expensive because of the "while you're in there" sickness. If the engine is running well I wouldn't touch it until it needs a rebuild, then do it up. If you must tear the engine apart, go with any 2.2 pistons and E cams. The T mfi will work fine with an E cam and you won't need to do any head work.

What would I do? I would make sure everything is dead on. Cam timing, ignition timing, dwell, MFI etc.. Print out the MFI check measure and adjust manual and go through the procedure outlined. Then I would get a set of 205/50/15's. On a lowered car they look pretty sweet, and the lower profile will increase the acceleration.

Vroom vroom!!

Good luck!
BK

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

If it's your daily driver then you probably won't want your car not running for extended lengths of time so an engine swap wouldn't be a bad idea for more power. Before my engine went south I was planning on building up a spare block that I have into a nice powerful small displacement engine.

One idea might be to find an old 2.7 block lying around and turn it into a 2.7RS motor, one of the best motor's porsche ever made.

BTW porting and S cams + JE pistons will make a nice engine out of your T. Do a search you'll find lots of info about this.

BTW I had headers on my 2.4T engine and I had no loss of drivablity. I can't say if they hurt the power on it since I've never driven any other 2.4T

zotman72 · 07-09-2003, 10:56 AM

Well I have slipped down this path myself. So on the cheap, I would pick up somebody's discarded 26 mm Turbo rear torsion bars and spring for new front 21 if you can not locate them used.
That will firm up your ride. Replace your suspension bushing as well. Pertronix ignition. Two piper Sport Muffler is good for a couple hp with the stock heat exchangers. I built myself a 2.4S MFI engine so do not follow me if you are trying to keep the budget and your marriage intact... Get bigger brakes up front or at least go with ATE slotted rotors. Strut brace perhaps. It never ends until you are $ depleted or you pack it in. HTH

Sunroof · 07-09-2003, 12:54 PM

A new Sony CD and speakers did it for me. Makes me feel like I am going faster with the music blasting!

Regards
Bob
73.5T

Jim Richards · 07-09-2003, 01:16 PM

I'll second BK's and Bill's comments. I just installed 21mm (new, hollow) front / 26mm (used) rear torsion bars and all new suspension bushings. As soon as my new SSI's arrive, I'm going to make sure the ignition timing and dwell are set, and that the MFI is tuned properly. I'll let you all know how it feels.

blau911 · 07-09-2003, 01:18 PM

Nigel,
My .02 are unless you are interested in doing most of the engine work yourself (and you know what you are doing), you are better off finding a good used engine with higher performance.
Because you are running MFI set-up for a T, you are pretty limited in what you can do without spending alot just on changing the MFI set-up, in order to run a higher compression/ higher rpm engine.You should be able to find a decent rebuilt early 2.2 or 2.4 engine or 2.7 engine (with webers) for around $3k with under 40k miles. Otherwise, good luck trying to rebuild your own 2.4T engine with anything more than minor mod's and 5-10hp for that amount.
By the way, the 2.4T is not a bad engine for shooting around town. It doesn't pack the punch that the 2.4E and S deliver, but you probably paid alot less for it than you certainly would have for a good E or S too. Enjoy what you have. It still has better performance than the soupcanned Honda Accord wanna be's.

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

What if my budget was $5k?

Porsches, surely the only car where you can increase your initial project budget by 200% in one day. Gotta love 'em.

zotman72 · 07-09-2003, 07:42 PM

My MFI 2.4S motor was on the high side of 5K after all the machine work and rare parts (stacks, cams, pump, throttle bodies, P/C, raceware rod bolts, etc.) And I did the assembly. Punch out now and be happy with a fine running 2.4 T motor. However, there is nothing as sweet a sound as a MFI 2.4S motor coming down from 7K equipped with a sport muffler. Awesome noise and worth every penny I spent. HTH

Jack Olsen · 07-09-2003, 08:23 PM

Another angle is to leave it alone and take it to a track (if you haven't already). A season of DE's (or, alternatively, autocross) can really open your eyes about what the car is capable of -- to the point where things like traffic-light races seem much less important.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

as a modification on Jack's advice, maybe take some of the money and tweak the suspension a bit. Maybe some of the revalved shocks from Smart Racing, t-bars, align and corner balance. Then off to DE.

Chuck Moreland · 07-09-2003, 08:50 PM

I'll second (third?) those last two comments. $2k, or even $5k is a tight budget for getting any real HP out of a T. Maybe if you add them together you could do a nice S rebuild for $7k.

But $2k can do a lot to your suspension if you do the work yourself. And spend the rest of your budget (and then some) going to DEs. You'll soon find the HP isn't so important.

Jay Auskin · 07-10-2003, 06:05 AM

Nigel, I'm in the same boat, sort of, as you. The difference being, I have my engine torn apart due to a dropped valve. Realizing that the damage was "contained", I've decided to rebuild as a T motor, as the replacement part cost will be minimized. Something about another comment of keeping the marriage happy swayed me a bit. The car itself also needs some replacement parts so I decided to build a motor "properly", but just to rebuild it as a T. I'll never get where I would be satisfied due to those darned T MFI stacks.

If you're on a budget, start building a new motor on the side. You can wait until you find cheap parts, and build it however you want. Then, down the road, swap out your 2.4L T.

724doorE · 07-10-2003, 06:23 AM

My bills from automechanika in 1990 were $5200 for parts and machining. In fact the machine work was $1600 (1990 dollars) so I gues you could double that. All new parts, oil pump, 2.7RS pistons and cylinders, all new valves, new studs, time certs, new chains, sprokets, ramps, tensioners, etc. And that machining included, surface case and align bore, bore spigots,bypass mod,angle cut heads, port heads, valve job etc. So I had a lot more done than you will.

Guys just keep a hard eye open for some used S pistons and get a $400 set of reground cams and you'll be on your way to more power on the cheap.

Do everything to the bottom end you will ever want. You can do the top end (heads in a few years (meaning port, cams, etc).

Look, if you want to build a faster Mustang, you'll still spend several grand on good parts(1K+ on al heads). This is no different, except you start with a better car

Oh Jay call me up when you will be coming through or PM me work number is 219-989-2405

zotman72 · 07-10-2003, 06:24 AM

Actually it was the Bilstein RSR $truts and tranny rebuild last year not the S engine (2 years ago) that broke the marriage. But hey I have my badass 911T! Just choices we all make... LOL

724doorE · 07-10-2003, 06:34 AM

Bill, I did mine long before I was caught in marrage

In seven years of marrage, I've spent about $500 on the car, poor poor car. Thats about to change though now that I drive it everyday.

Jay Auskin · 07-10-2003, 07:30 AM

there's a set of 2.2S P/C's on e-bay now. 84mm bore, but higher compression than 2.4L. They're at about $400 now. The seller said that they might have anywhere from 90K to 190K miles on them, but they checked OK from his mechanic. That mileage worries me a bit??

Dennis, you've been PM'd

724doorE · 07-10-2003, 07:59 AM

Those are getting expensive quick, but 14 bids tells you something! i want the cams!

blau911 · 07-10-2003, 08:56 AM

Those 2.2 S heads on Ebayseem to be a good deal at face value, but they will need machine work, new guides and new valves. This will run at least another $6-800 over the final bid price... Is that a deal? I bought a set of 67 911S heads with low mileage and it ended up costing me just over $2k once the dust settled, once I include the new guides, valves and add'l porting and polishing work. But it will be worth it once SWB comes to life at 5,500 rpms.