Pelican's Non-DOT Stainless Brake Lines - what brand are they?

[450knotOffice]

Have any of you guys used these and do you know what brand they are? Do you like them or would you stay away from them? I have a set that I just purchased, but I'm getting cold feet now. I'm thinking seriously about returning them and just getting standard rubber hoses.

What do you guys think?

[Flieger]

They work great for me

[slodave]

Hi Scott,

I have been using them for over two years. I don't remember the brand, but purchased through PP as well.

[450knotOffice]

The non-DOT versions?

[RWebb]

Putting non-DOT brakes hoses on your car gains you nothing and is about as safe as Russian Roulette.

All the Brake Bling people will now utter howls of distress...

[turbobrat930]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Putting non-DOT brakes hoses on your car gains you nothing and is about as safe as Russian Roulette.

All the Brake Bling people will now utter howls of distress...

HMMM, yea, DOT...a government agency..... Like I really care what they think anyways... More than likely, the part is not DOT rated, is because the company probably did not want to spend the millions of dollars it would take just to get a DOT rating.
I have used non DOT rated SS braided lines on atleast 5 of my cars that I do own, or have owned in the past... ZERO failures... and numerous people here have bought the ones form this host and have had ZERO complaints or failures.

Come on people, DOT...is the Department of Transportation... do I really need a lobbist or a legislative official telling me what is safe and what is not??? Not at all.. but that is my opinion...and RWebb, you are entitled to yours as well. We can agree to disagree.

NOPE... my 0.02 cents..

[RWebb]

nice political rant... now, go check the DATA on what has happened with non-DOT lines before.

maybe Pelican has some sort of quality testing we are not aware of however...

[Flieger]

I respectfully disagree with RWebb.

Can you provide evidence of non-DOT approved lines failing?

I have never had problems with the non-DOT. It's not like the TUV approval

[RWebb]

There are numerous reports in old Panos, and many were reprinted in the UpFixin' series.

Anybody that wants to use steel flex lines -- be my guest. Also, don't wear a seat belt or harness. You can get away with it for years, and will look very cool.

[gtc]

Can anyone tell us what the differences between the DOT and non-DOT lines are?

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Flieger

I respectfully disagree with RWebb.

Can you provide evidence of non-DOT approved lines failing?

I have never had problems with the non-DOT. It's not like the TUV approval

You should read this http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Brake_Lines.

Apparently provides evidence of DOT-approved lines failing.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by spuggy

You should read this http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Brake_Lines.

Apparently provides evidence of DOT-approved lines failing.

I was reading that as well. So, how are the lines that PP sells constructed?

I have had mine for about 2.5 years now. I will have to replace break pads soon, so I think I will ride it out for now and replace them when I do the pads and then think about replacing the every two years.

Dave

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

I've used and heavily abused them on two 914's, my 911SC and a BMW 325is. Never had a single problem.

[imcarthur]

Hmmm . . .

OEM lines (all 4) = $80.50
Non-DOT = $58.95
DOT = $69.95

Why is there a discussion at all? This isn't a big dollar difference. There is no installation advantage. And there has been on-going controversy about safety.

Hmmm . . .

Ian

[JWest]

Originally Posted by gtc

Can anyone tell us what the differences between the DOT and non-DOT lines are?

Yes, I used to work at one of the manufacturers of these lines.

The difference is the attachment of the line to the fitting. Failures of teflon lines usually occurs from kinking. The most likely way for this to happen is for the line to get folded where it meets the rigid connection at one end.

The way the place I worked at did it was to redesign the crimp collar. The fitting itself that inserted inside the hose was almost the same as a normal fitting (the barbs were slightly changed). A teflon sleeve was placed over the hose braiding and ran about an inch beyond the crimp sleeve. When the sleeve was crimped, the extra teflon sleeve supported the area of the hose near the fitting, much like the outer sleeving near the end of better garden hoses.

I have also seen braided lines fail. I had a customer bring me a car and said his brakes were pulling to one side. I got into the car and pressed on the pedal to see how much air was in the system. I guess I pressed just a little harder than was required for normal braking, because they was a small boom and the pedal hit the floor (old single circuit master cylinder)!

One of the lines had burst - it had been kinked at the fitting. The lines had been on the car for years and he did not have any recent work done, so we don't know exactly when or how the damage was incurred.

It was lucky the car was sitting still and not driving when this happened!

Go with stock rubber hoses - SS braid are not worth the trouble.

[Zeke]

FWIW, Scott, I bought rubber for my latest car after having used SS on the 2 previous ones.

[GaryR]

OEM rubber, and mine is a 100% race/track car.

[Quicksilver]

The advantage of SS lines is they have less give so you will have a harder pedal. If you have power brakes on the car they are a waste of time because the brake booster has a huge quantity of "give" in it.

To add to to James Adams' post:
SS-Teflon line was designed to use a screw together AN style fitting. It is a much more reliable fitting if it is assembled correctly. The DOT SS lines are crimped even though the screw together AN fittings are a more reliable because the DOT spec demands a crimped fitting. It is a regulation so it doesn't have to make sense. It just is the word handed down as a one-size-fits-all answer.

The crimped versions of the SS-Teflon (for DOT compliance) are a kludge. Teflon with a stainless sheath was never intended to be squeezed together as a crimp joint. A lot of work has been done to make sure it doesn't damage the tube but isn't an optimal solution. It is just a "get something that works" solution.

SS-Teflon lines should be regularly inspected for even slight kinks. As has been mentioned here, they can be easily kinked at the end. Road debris can easily cause trouble too. In other words pretend like your life depends on it!

[450knotOffice]

Thanks for the input, guys.

[450knotOffice]

Well, I went with the OEM rubber lines (which I got through Paul Kaas "pkaaso"). The majority of people on this forum and others steered me in that direction and the peace of mind that the OEM lines gives me is immeasurable. The lines are installed, Super Blue was used to flush and bleed the brakes, and the pedal is rock hard - harder than it's been since I've had the car.

I'm happy.