Interesting story about car buy that went wrong

beepbeep · 06-21-2003, 05:02 PM

Sorry if it has been posted before. It's looooong story but definately worth reading. It will make you think extra next time you are buying a car:

Part 1:
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3378984

Part 2:
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3379064

(Guy flys to Miami? to buy cheap M3 and discovers it's really two stolen cars welded together)

1973911s · 06-21-2003, 05:46 PM

That sucks!

LeeH · 06-21-2003, 05:56 PM

Holy cow... I've been reading for 30 minutes and I'm only on the first page!

Doug E · 06-21-2003, 07:03 PM

That, my friends, is a truely amazing story and well worth the read.

stomachmonkey · 06-21-2003, 07:05 PM

Sucks for the guy but he admittedly had plenty of warning signs that he chose to ignore.

I think he really wanted the car and let himself get blinded.

Or it's all bull.

Scott

TimT · 06-21-2003, 07:11 PM

Im not so sure I feel bad for the guy....

apparent E30 expert flies across country to buy car

red flags are raised every time he looks at the car

he has looked at the car a few times over 2 or 3 days?

he buys the car

I turns out to be a POS with suspect numbers....

Hell you could have made an E30 out of clay and that guy would have bought it!!!!!!!

caveat emptor...

724doorE · 06-21-2003, 07:36 PM

read fro 45 minutes, thats an amazing lesson though!!

Chuck Moreland · 06-21-2003, 11:48 PM

That was worth reading. A very well told story.

Could be BS, but I don't think so. The sad thing is for $10k it's hardly worth pursuing. It's gonna cost him that much to sue the guy cross countly. Plus winning the suit is one thing, collecting is another.

Lessoned learned is to cross check all the vins on the car, and run the carfax before buying. Plus, always trust your instinct. If it feels fishy, walk.

Sonic dB · Sonic dB's Garage

I think he got what he deserved.

Didnt get the Vin and run a Car Fax right off the bat....didnt get pics emailed to him for evaluation...when he saw the car in the garage, noticed some flaws but not all.

His arrogance as a "car guy" just shown through out his whole story....he kept mentioning how much he knew about cars etc.... and then he made those mistakes, missed those obvious flaws and still gave the guy his $10K.

Sucker born every minute.

Im not saying its right... it basically sucks that people are out there swindling others....however this is the way the world works and if you are not aware of it, you will get burned.

PS: The whole premise of flying completely across the country to purchase a sight unseen 1989 BMW with over 100 K on the dial is completely absurd and completely laughable.

M. Hendrix · 06-22-2003, 01:34 AM

Dood, that guy is STILL ASSUMING all the way down the page.

You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate, I think he hit the rocks, Cap'n.

M

john70t · 06-22-2003, 03:22 AM

Only got halfway through the first story, but he could:
1. Wait until he gets the guy in the open and have police there to verify fingerprints to name.
2. Check title on house and car and try to put a lean on them for the total costs involved, update as necessary.
3. File interstate fraud charges(isn't that federal?).
4. Other options.. .. ..

Yeah, o.k., the guy made some unexperienced and somewhat stupid choices, but he doesn't hide his own mistakes or those of others. He's a car nerd not a people person and gulible to judgment of characters. Aren't we all? I find it sad that people would ***** on the guy for making innocent decisions.

LeeH · 06-22-2003, 07:38 AM

In his defense, I've traveled cross country to buy cars. I had two different sellers tell me how wonderful their cars were only to be disappointed upon arrival.

Me on the phone: Any rust?
Seller1 on the phone: Not on this car!
Me in person: Look at all the bubbles!
Seller1: Oh, is THAT what rust looks like?

Me on the phone: Does the A/C work?
Seller1 on the phone: Yep!
Me in person: Let's try the A/C.
Seller1: Oh. Well, somebody tried to steal the radio last year and cut all these wires. If you solder them back together it will work great.

Me on the phone: Are the wheels in good shape.
Seller2 on the phone: They look great! One has just a bit of curb rash.
Me in person: That wheel is shaped like an egg!
Seller2: Hmm, I never noticed.

Me on the phone: How's the paint.
Seller2 on the phone: It's brand new, done by Best Painter. Everybody around here knows him. It looks like new.
Me in person: Wow, this thing is just covered in dust specs and fish eyes. Does he use a booth?
Seller2: No, I think he did it in his driveway.

I completely understand this guys thinking - having been in his shoes. "I flew half way across the country to bring home a car and I'm not leaving without my prize," is the internal dialog. It's tough to have planned the routes and stops you'll make in your new car then consider flying home empty handed. The sad thing is that these people knew I was flying in to see the cars and either lied or failed to be critical enough of their own cars. And while I left emty handed both times, I did do a lot of the type of justification he did trying to convince myself that it wouldn't be that bad!

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

It's tough having a wife smarter than you....

"Honey, get a round trip ticket...it's cheaper...you never know..."

He'll be living this "story" for the _rest_ of his life....

James

Neilk · 06-22-2003, 09:11 AM

I wonder if they guy found the Bimmer forum before or after he bought the car. One of the great things about this board, or Rennlist when it was active, is that people will check a car out for you before you decide to fly across the country.

Many years ago someone wanted an early 911 checked out in Miami. I was going to be in Miami that particular weekend, so I volunteered. The buyer was told that the car was in "decent" shape so he sent me a disposable camera for me to take pictures of it. When I got there, the "decent" car turned out to be complete rust bucket. It cost the buyer all of $10 to eliminate that car from his shopping list.

I feel sorry for the guy, but what an idiot. He brags about his car knowledge and then let's himself get ripped off like that. His poor wife.

06-22-2003, 09:17 AM

There's no ending to the story???

Anyway no matter how stupid this guy may have been ignoring obvious warning signs this is still outrageous. Francisco is a fraud. I hope the police gets him and that he goes to court.

tiorio · 06-22-2003, 09:21 AM

I feel for the guy. I've flown to look at cars that were not at all what they were supposed to be. I flew 1800m to buy my 930 but had the dealer send a ton of photos, copies of paper, etc. beforehand.

I think this guy's biggest mistake was not having seen similar vehicles before buying one. He had no feel for the breed so a lot of his justifications were ignorance of what the car should have been.

A lot of shoulda's in this story but the guy plainly says he feels an idiot for what he did, even though he got ripped off. And he also wasn't the only one. People make mistakes and if they can own up to that I don't consider that a sign of idiocy. If it is, then I'm idiot numero-uno...

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

caveat emptor

The buyer acted like a 16 year old (maybe he is). In the grand scheme of things maybe it was a cheap lesson. His wife will be well-armed for years

rennch · rennch's Garage

Unfortunately, I found myself on the receiving end of a similar situation recently. Went from CO to NY to buy my first 911 (A 72 T) that was supposed to be rust free, with 69k on it. Found a bunch of surface rust, and then a giant rust through beneath the rear window deck. Told him it was ok, but it would cost me at least $1000 to fix. So, we agreed to take $1000 off the price of the car. So, I took it for $5200.

On the drive home, the engine blew up. (threw a rod bearing, we think)
Yesterday, I went to pull the engine, and discovered that the seat wells in the rear were completely rusted out, and had been cheaply patched/riveted with sheet metal. So, now I have a $5000 paperweight, with holes in it. It's my fault, I know....Caveat Emptor.

I didn't know better...I was excited about my first Porsche purchase. So, I can see how this dude got hosed by his new car. I'm living it right now!

mto

Jack Olsen · 06-22-2003, 10:38 AM

The guy writes very well.

But the biggest warning flag, for me, was the seller not agreeing to any kind of receipt. He handed $10,000 in cash to a guy without anything to document it.

914/6now911 · 06-22-2003, 10:58 AM

Two weeks ago, I drove to Northern Cal from SoCal to buy a '72 T with steel turbo bodywork. I had seen detailed pictures of the car and had probably spent 2 hours total on the phone with the seller. I knew there were some issues (wrong color repaint), but felt I had a good understanding of the condition. Had cash, trailer reservation, took two days off work, and made the 10 hour drive. You know the scenario; got within 10 feet of the car and went "oooof". In this case, I honestly felt like the seller was just ignorant and inexperienced, rather than trying to rip me off. As such, I found that I wasn't really pissed, just disappointed. The car still had potential, just at a much reduced price. I made an offer $3k lower than we had discussed over the phone and he passed. I drove around for a while (picked up a part I had bought on ebay in San Fran, so not a total loss), and then called him, upping my offer by $500. He still passed. It was tough to leave and I found myself rationalizing the car's faults and I was tempted to go another $500-1000. Once you get emotionally invested in a car, visualizing it beforehand, you can make some stupid decisons. Came home without the car.