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masraum masraum is online now
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Central TX west of Houston
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Here's some good info from the 911 tech board. There's more in the thread, but these posts seemed to be the most informative to me.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/436855-do-i-need-bump-steer-kit.html#post4255788

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger View Post
It is more the change in toe than the change in camber. Toe change is affected by the relative movements of the tie-rod to the A-arm (different arcs).

If the A-arm is pointing down and the tie rod is level (stock suspension setting), then under compression, the hub/A-arm moves out but the tie rod gets shorter. Therefore, the toe turns out under compression. This is bump-understeer.

If you lower the car: A-arm level, tie rod up, zero toe-alignment at this ride-height.
Under compression, the tie-rod still causes toe-out.

If you add dropped tie-rod pickups, the tie rod will not get shorter at a faster rate than the A-arm. Therefore, less toe-out bump steer.

Theoretically, you could make the tie rods angle down while the A-arm was level. This is bump over-steer. The toe turns inward on the wheel in bump, causing steering input tightening the turn.

Camber effects complicate the severity of the bump steer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
Yes & No, at static loaded rest the steering arm is presumed to be at the mid point of it's travel range and this is ideally the point were camber and toe changes are linearly correlated to wheel travel, out of this sweet spot the changes in camber and toe are non linearly correlated to wheel travel and cause excessive extraneous steering inputs to be even more undesirable. Ideally the steering arm and lower control arm will always be parallel and move thru the same arc minimizing camber & toe changes(which cause bump steering) but that can't happen because the pivot points for the 2 arms are in different planes both horizontally and vertically. So you can only minimize the difference in arcs over the relatively narrow sweet range of travel, to limit travel you use big springs and stiff shocks, to minimize arc difference you start in the middle of the travel range and start w/ parallel to the ground for the steering arms and as close to that as possible for the A arms.

Here is a '73RS that could stand to be lowered a tad, you can see that the steering and A arms are at different heights and have different pivots so they move in different arcs, a washer type bump steer kit will lower the steering arm pivot to be nearer the plane of the A arm pivot but they will never coincide.






??? bump steer is caused by a vertical suspension movement on one side of the car that cause the wheel on that side toe toe in or out causing a corresponding change in vehicle yaw, in a turn the same effects are still in extent, but now the turn is causing one wheel to move up and the other to move down, one wheel is trying to turn more than the other,the 2 wheels will steer in different arcs because of built in ackerman and because of the camber/toe changes caused by wheel movement

I agree w/ the latter but the former is misleading, the A arm has max Y axis displacement when it is parallel to the ground, the arcs can only move horizontally inboard from there, The effect is to shorten the effective length of the arm at the lower end of the steering axis, the steering arm is doing a similar thing in a slightly different arc but if both start horizontal then you have a better chance of staying in the linear ranges for camber/toe changes


camber curves are typically S shaped w/ a relatively linear portion at the middle of the S that is where you want your ride height to stay in the linear middle portion of the curve

The spindle is raised to maintain full shock travel, at the same time it allows the A arm to start in a more horizontal position on a lowered car again, starting at horizontal is good because you stay in the sweet spot for camber/toe changes more of the time

You will always have some bump steer, it is in the nature of the suspnsion design used, all you can do is minimise it.

Kevin's suggestion actually measuring is good( and very interesting to be able to see) but unnecessary.

If you stay at RoW ride height, or ~ 25.5" at the fenders w/ stock 16" wheells and tires then the factory specs are great, they did all the work.

the lower you go from there the more other "stuff" needs to be done, go to ~ 25" and the washers are needed, go to 24.5" and raised spindles and Steering arm kits are needed
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:42 PM
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