knock sensor

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

....
A DIY MSIII + Delphi ion current coils will be a terrific package.....

There has been discussion for several years that the future "Ultramegasquirt" would include built in ion sensing capability. Given how long it has taken MS-III and the Sequencer to show, I would suspect Delphi will win.
I wonder how much each of those ion sensing pencil coils will cost?

[nize]

gorean et al.;
all that sounds good for when it's available in the future and i hope it's available soon.

while we're waiting for a better mousetrap, the vipec, wolf, and j&s safeguards all work extremely well. proven on the dyno and on the track. plug-and-play. on porsches. today.

[nize]

now that i think of it, given how active j&s john is in the industry, i would not be surprised if he came out with a new j&s system that uses ion sensors. in the end, it's enthusiasts like us who win.

[kenikh]

Ah, technology. The R&D depts are already experimenting with integrated ignition/DFI/ion sensing cartridges that will fit the center plug hole location of most engines. I am just waiting for the day that I can drop two of these into my early 911s twin plug holes.

Since we are still living in today, looks like Wolf and J&S are my solution.

[John at J&S]

[thedge]

Originally Posted by nize

i should mention that the brand-new vipec EMS system designed by Random EMS is only one of two aftermarket systems i am aware of that has a 2-stage knock protection which;
1) retards timing, and if knock is still present
2) cuts boost

aside from the porsche factory system for the 951, the only other system i know of that has this two-stage timing retard+boost-cut knock protection failsafe is the Wolf EMS. both are available from here;
Random Engine Management Systems

Link G4s also have that. Vipecs are rebadged Links.

[kenikh]

Bob Boyer at Random EMS gave me the skinny yesterday - he has a great wealth of knowledge to share. It doesn't hurt that he lives 3 miles down the road.

[nize]

he also has one of the fastest race-dominating 951's in the world, running wolf EMS with J&S safeguard;







the wolf+j&s has also been running on several race-winning 930's for several years.

[lucittm]

I wonder what kind of downforce he is getting from that rear wing? It sure looks like a steep angle of attack!

Mark

[flat6pilot]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

.....

Back to present day: Delphi is about to release their own mass-production ion-sensing ignition cartridges in 2012. 15 years late but I sincerely hope that mass production of ion-sensing ignition will give DIY:ers power to adopt it to MegaSquirt just like they adopted EDIS. This will be nirvana of DIY EFI. It will be Linux in IBM and Windows world of aftermarket EFI.

A DIY MSIII + Delphi ion current coils will be a terrific package.

Delphi Ionization Current Sensing Ignition Subsystems

So more than 15 years after this post, is ION knock sensing available to the mass DYI? I'm about to install a MS3 pro and an old fashioned knock sensor. Did I miss any new tech now available?

[John at J&S]

Yes, I have been working on an Ion Sensing system, starting in 2011. I made a couple false starts, then began again in 2015.

It's been on and off the back burner, since my wife died from cancer, then again after I was hit by a car while walking, broke both my legs, two years ago.

I'm doing well now, but my right knee is messed up. It will take knee replacement surgery to fix it, but I can walk and play pool as is.

The initial version is for distributor ignition. I have a pre-production version installed on a 1990 Chevy Suburban.

The ion sensing electronics are mounted and encapsulated on top of the distributor cap, with connectors feeding the ion signals to the processor unit, and supplying power to the ion sensors.

I have another version in the works for direct ignition, but I'm not ready to publish anything on it.

This version requires an MSD or other CDI system.

I designed the processor unit in 2016, but I don't know what the final version will look like. It has a small oscilloscope mounted on the front panel, so you can monitor the ion signals, but that scope went out of production as I was finishing the first prototype. The designer sold me the parts to build and install another one in the second unit.

The processor has a bunch of knobs, switches, and LED's, and is designed as a research tool, not really for the retail customer, as I don't know what features will end up in the production version.

It has output jacks to feed signals to an external lab scope, with a knob to select what signals are being looked at, and one to select which cylinder is being displayed.

It also has an input for an acoustic knock sensor, using the same detection and control system as used in my SafeGuard system. One of the switches on the front panel let you select knock control by ion sensor or by knock sensor.

The acoustic sensor will probably go away in the production version. I included it in the prototype as a way to "prove" the ion system is actually detecting knock signals.

An LED array shows misfire with yellow LED's, knock with orange LED's, and, preignition with red LED's, for each cylinder, and there is the familiar LED bargraph I use in my SafeGuard gauge, showing the amount of retard from either the ion sensors or the acoustic knock sensor.

I also included an off the shelf eight channel data collection system with USB output.

The user interface is straight out of the '80's, and needs to be updated, but I ran out of knowledge.

[dedyplay]

930 engine makes too much noise as well to use a knock sensor.

[John at J&S]

No, the 930 engine is not too noisy to use with knock sensors. Where did you get that idea?

Several members on here are using the SafeGuard system.

Do a search on here to see who is using it, then ask them if it works.