my forrest fire 930 ! - Page 2

sand_man · 06-27-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten

I'm not sure I followed this well or not. Did it run for a time with no ball in it? Maybe the seals were blown out and they aren't going to re-seat. Are you sure it's oil blowing past the Turbo seals and not elsewhere?

That's what I'm wondering. I've also heard that a little oil can make a lot of smoke. Has this turbo been rebuilt, before? If so, did it originally leak oil into the intercooler? If so, did you clean the intercooler out? I guess what I'm getting at, is there old oil in your intercooler, from a previous turbo failure?

les_garten · 06-27-2008, 10:53 AM

When mine blew past the seals it filled up the IC and the Intake runners QUICK.

NoSloVo · 06-27-2008, 11:09 AM

OK ,.... the seals in the turbo is a possibility though the turbo has only had about 8k miles on it from new (upgrade from the original dl3z). It had no bearing ball in the feed line before I got the car so it was running with out one for maybe 5k miles. I dont know if the previous owner had the same problem but it has been doing this intermittently ever since I got the car (and is why I dont ever really drive it).

When I puled it apart the other day I cleaned out any oil in the turbo/intercooler. I have driven it around a few days since then and it only started smoking now. I dont believe oil is getting in any other way then the turbo. I have checked leakdown (all cylinders very good) and no smoke during deceleration/engine braking. Just starts blowing smoke intermittently and when warmed up and normal driving.

So , most likely it has to be one of three possibilities...

bad turbo seals
too much oil flow to turbo
insufficient return flow from turbo

sand_man · 06-27-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten

When mine blew past the seals it filled up the IC and the Intake runners QUICK.

Yeah, when my 3LDZ went south, man there was oil all over the inside of that intercoooler!!!!

les_garten · 06-27-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSloVo

OK ,.... the seals in the turbo is a possibility though the turbo has only had about 8k miles on it from new (upgrade from the original dl3z). It had no bearing ball in the feed line before I got the car so it was running with out one for maybe 5k miles. I dont know if the previous owner had the same problem but it has been doing this intermittently ever since I got the car (and is why I dont ever really drive it).

When I puled it apart the other day I cleaned out any oil in the turbo/intercooler. I have driven it around a few days since then and it only started smoking now. I dont believe oil is getting in any other way then the turbo. I have checked leakdown (all cylinders very good) and no smoke during deceleration/engine braking. Just starts blowing smoke intermittently and when warmed up and normal driving.

So , most likely it has to be one of three possibilities...

bad turbo seals
too much oil flow to turbo
insufficient return flow from turbo

Hi,
Good info.

Does it smoke when it's cold?

If so, you could immediately pull the cold side connector off and see if oil is in the intake. If not I would pull the muffler and see if it is in the hot housing outlet. Don't let it warm up, if it smokes imediately upon start, I would stop and check those inlet/outlet fittings. This should confirm Turbo if you still have a question about it.

Then Flow and scavenger troubleshooting. It's quite possible that running for 5K without the restrictor screwed up the ring seals in the Turbo and a rebuild is in your NEAR future. Ya gotta fix it, if you ain't drivin' the car because of it!

Luckily, when I put the ball back in mine the problem went away pretty quick. My Turbo was brand new though. Good luck!

NoSloVo · 06-27-2008, 11:55 AM

smokes only when warmed up. Once in a while is will smoke on start up but only a few seconds.

I am wondering what would/could go bad in the return pump system. it has a small oil leak near the pump and Im thinking if it is somehow pulling any air there it might not draw enough oil out of the tank. With the original oil return reservoir it often smokes bad on left handed turns as the tank is much longer (towards the left side) then the aftermarket tank forcing the oil back up into the turbo.

thanks guys for your suggestions/discussion .... this is really driving me crazy ... and I am getting ready to unload the car and go back to turbo volvos.

les_garten · 06-27-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSloVo

smokes only when warmed up. Once in a while is will smoke on start up but only a few seconds.

I am wondering what would/could go bad in the return pump system. it has a small oil leak near the pump and Im thinking if it is somehow pulling any air there it might not draw enough oil out of the tank. With the original oil return reservoir it often smokes bad on left handed turns as the tank is much longer (towards the left side) then the aftermarket tank forcing the oil back up into the turbo.

thanks guys for your suggestions/discussion .... this is really driving me crazy ... and I am getting ready to unload the car and go back to turbo volvos.

Looks like it is time for an INTERVENTION, cause if you're thinking of going from a 930 to a Volvo, we got some serious Emergent issues to work out here, before things get real ugly real fast! If I hear you say Prius, me and Sand_Man are going to show up, and we're bringin Marlin Perkins and Jim with us, and jim is going to have that big Azz Traquilizer gun with him. You know, the one he uses on the Elephants!! I'm starting to see Electro Convulsive therapy in your immediate future...

Jim2 · Jim2's Garage

Ensure idle is set to about 950 rpm. Less can become an issue, the scavene pump may not keep up with flow through the turbo.

Ensure you have good, correct oil. xxW50. If it's old, change it. Thin, old, oil can flow through the turbo more easily overcoming the scavenge pump capacity at low rpms.

edit: errr,... different Jim above, but I'll join in.

sand_man · 06-27-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten

Looks like it is time for an INTERVENTION, cause if you're thinking of going from a 930 to a Volvo, we got some serious Emergent issues to work out here, before things get real ugly real fast! If I hear you say Prius, me and Sand_Man are going to show up, and we're bringin Marlin Perkins and Jim with us, and jim is going to have that big Azz Traquilizer gun with him. You know, the one he uses on the Elephants!! I'm starting to see Electro Convulsive therapy in your immediate future...

But judging from his user name, I'm guessing these are NOT "stock" Volvo turbos...

NoSloVo · 06-27-2008, 01:38 PM

sorry for posting volvo pictures on a porsche forum .... but the 300 ponies in this guy make people wonder what just went past them.

Jim2 · Jim2's Garage

"3" Give us a little history on the motor. Back in the late 80's a freind had a line on one of those twin cams with the intention of building it up. They were supposedly high output from the get go, given the era. I thought these old twin cams were only delivered in europe.

NoSloVo · 02:33 PM

in the late eighties early nineties the 16v came here NA in the b234f engine (I have heard porsche had a hand in the development of that motor or more so the head), but in europe mostly in Italy, volvo marketed the 16v turbo in the 740s and 940s. These were only 2 liter engines as Italy ( maybe other countries) have or had some tax laws on larger engines. The 16v heads are cheap to pick up as those volvos are getting old. People arent keeping up any maintainace so when the timing belt breaks the valves hit the pistons. I used to live Sweden and was able find and bring over the intake and exhaust manifolds from the Italian motor. Modifying volvos is pretty common in sweden as they are everywhere. 400+ hp is common in this setup (volvo internals were pretty stout) and a few drag guys are pushing over 1000 hp from a 4 cylinder.

sand_man · 06-27-2008, 04:42 PM

Make no apologies...for the most part, you are among "car guys"! That V-car is insane!!!

krasuskyp · 06-28-2008, 06:59 AM

Wicked cool NoSloVo - never seen a Turbo put to the GLE 16v motor before. Dig the overall direction you went with that too.

Even got the somewhat hard to find OE firewall strut bars.

Thanks for sharing!

I cut my teeth in an '80 242GT - no turbo tho. Group 6 cam that idle'd @ like 250 and sounded like a popcorn popper, full IPD suspension, Hoosier Autocrossers, etc. Good times.

Ah, memories...