More 930 Headers - and now for something completely different ...
 

Thought I'd share one of our more unusual projects.
This fellow had some not so common build parameters:
> 1.63" primaries
> V-band turbo mount
> heat exchangers
> twin waste gates
> waste gate mufflers

Basic header design was our standard equal length primaries with merge collectors.
The WG mufflers had to exit under the car for max noise reduction.
Heat exchangers are the final version (can I get a hallelujah!) and are going into production now. The 1.5" version is also in production.
We'll probably produce a few waste gate mufflers as some tracks are cranking down the sound limits.
Gotta love it!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1356761205.jpg

Nice work Brian!

That header is pure porn!
They are now on my official want list.
Great work Brian.

Looks fantastic.

What kind of heater hose do you use on the aft part of the HE? It looks as itll run real close to the glowing red tubes.

Thank you! The heat exchanger design remains bolt-on so they can be removed if damaged or not needed. For ducting we recommend the orange high-temp SCAT tubing from the aircraft industry. That type hose has a wire slinky inside so you can turn it and it will hold shape which allows the hose to not touch the header pipes. I had that setup on the red rocket for a couple years and it worked flawlessly. You can also use metal pipe but that is much more expensive. We have fixtures now for just about any configuration imaginable so the cost for custom is coming down as the "custom" becomes "options". The set pictured was only a few hundred dollars more than our standard 930 headers.

Nice work as usual!

Do you have any of your standard 930 ones with heater boxes in stock? I have been wanting some since I got your muffler. Between some unexpected repairs and some new wheels, my budget for my 930 was shot. New Year new budget!

Do I have to re route any oil lines or any other items? I plan to do the install myself.

Can you source all new fasteners and those orange heater hoses? It would be great to have everything in box, its sucks having to stop a project midway to run out for odds and ends.

Sweet Brian! That customer must be running some serious Turbo to run two wastegates.
Yasin

Actually the twin wastegates have less to do with engine output and much to do with boost control. The size is 38mm per bank on very short exit pipes at a good angle of flow. The boost will stay dead nuts on 1.0bar with no creep, flutter, or lag.

Did someone say heat?

I like it better than your single wastegate system, less clutter where the it meets the turbo.

Very nice Brian.
Is he pitting on a Garret Gt35r with one of those trick light weight cast stainless steel TIAL hot side housings with V band clamp attachment?

The new heat exchangers are looking good too :)

Agree, very nice. Be careful with the oil lines/headers on a factory slant, 505, the t-stat is in a different location, the std early oil line thing won't work. Even the braided line with my fabspeeds is suboptimal, fs is currently fabbing me a special line. If that doesn't work, I'll be selling a bunch of parts.
This is where headers that allow the factory oil lines are superior IMO.

factory oil lines are always superior.

Yes Jim this setup is for a TiAL stainless steel v-band turbo. We've done a few of these now and they work pretty good.

I designed my headers to use the OEM oil lines but really it is best to move them out of the way if possible. The headers are really close in a couple spots with no elegant way around it. The factory has 3 different versions of the late oil line as well which further complicates things. We use OEM back date oil lines as I'm not a fan of the inexpensive braided lines. They work but OEM is made for the application. To do the slant nose oil line back date you need to have the rubber hose portion custom made at a hose shop. Nice parts are not cheap but usually worth the extra effort and coin.

SCAT tubing can be supplied with nice ends on it if you know the length you need. Look here: Custom Ducts! The source for Aircraft Ducting
Company name is Custom Ducts.
Makes clamping much easier as the wire will come poking out on tubing without ends on it, making it a pain to deal with.

As for oil lines, I'm using the old backdated line but I had to bend it a little to get it to exit in the correct spot on my engine. Also, I have to be careful not to contact it every time I jack the car up. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy the Elephant Racing line that passes over the top of the tranny, but it's way overpriced.

Personally, I think the large braided lines are fine (good enough for NASCAR), the issue with the factory slant is the position of the t-stat. A simple remedy would be a rt angle end on both sides of the line, but what do I know....
Let's see if I can't get it fixed or else the winter sale starts.

Not the car Chris?

Thats some nice work, Brian.
Well done :)

No, the headers
But if I do have a sale, the car goes back to bone stock, lotta stuff for sale in that case.
C

Nice work as always Brian :-)

Who says car guys can't be artisans???!!!

"Personally, I think the large braided lines are fine (good enough for NASCAR)"

Race cars use stainless or kevlar braided oil and fuel lines because they are custom made by the race teams.
Braided lines have a life expectancy and then they should be discarded and replaced after a certain amount of time. The rubber hose under the braiding eventually rots but you can't see it when it starts drying out and cracking or turning soft and mushy under the abrasion resistant braiding.
On aircraft a stainless steel tag with the manufacture date is clamped on to all braided lines and some race teams do that too because you'd never know when their useful time is up otherwise.

For a street car that has factory made gold cad plated steel oil lines available or already there that fit correctly and are mandrel bent where they turn or curve... are much better and more durable to road debris and age than stainless or aramid fiber braided lines.

Thanks for the info Brian, I will do some searches on headers for factory slants.

TT, be very careful with the oil lines from the thermostat to the oil cooler. Mine started leaking (the crimp that is the joint between the rubber and metal part) because I bent them a little so they would not rub on my 315's. I opted to buy the factory replacements so yep nothing like factory. OUCH!!$$$

Not to get off topic on Brians headers but Tt surgeon has his oil cooler in the passenger side rear fender where the slotting is on some of our cars. So probably a special case with his oil lines.

Looking forward to delivery ....... thanks Brian!
Enjoyed the comments & looking forward to getting the car back together.
Dave

This is the beauty going on Brian's artwork!
Davehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1356958726.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1356958772.jpg

Looks sweet.

More details on the build, please.

Exactly, this creates a special issue anybody w a factory slant has to be aware of when contemplating headers.
Brian has built a fantastic set of headers, kudos.

Finally managed to get some of the car back together over the weekend.
Picked up the engine and gearbox (different shops) did the assembly and into the car Saturday, Sunday. Now it's time to sort out the oil feed and drain as well air filter arrangement and pressure pipe to the new full bay intercooler from Bell.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1363002814.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1363002868.jpg

Another anglehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1363023766.jpg

I'm curious to see how your muffler and pipe routing goes. I was looking at Brian's first photo with the wastegate mufflers pointed forward and thinking no way that works... then I see you rotated the WGs to face rearward, but might that occupy the typical muffler location? Hard to visualize from my chair.
And just and FYI on the heat, you may wish to have your 3-way collector welded up to eliminate boost leaks getting into the heat boxes. Forewarned is forearmed, and it'll never be easier than right now.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1356761205.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1363002868.jpg

I expect the muffler to be above the wastegate mufflers and plan to either point the wastegate mufflers down a bit to clear the bumper, or put down turned tips on them. More and more of the tracks I run at have noise restrictions so the dump has to be relatively quiet. Currently thinking the heater boxes will remain in the basement, already put the heater delete block off plates on the engine.

You got me thinking so checked and the muffler is comfortably above the wastegate mufflers.
A bit of reading suggests I need to come up with some sort of water system to cool the water cooled turbo .......

I thought most guys just plugged the water ports in this application.

Don't take my word for it, but it has been discussed previously.

Just run engine oil through them. It is much easier and the same principal. Oil is typically 10 degree hotter than water in a water cooled engine. In an air cooled engine it is no different? I still don't know why people are stumped on this one? You would just have to raise the oil pressure by shimming the pressure piston on the bottom of the case to compensate for the additional,oil flow to the turbo. If you are running a stock oil cooler, it would be advised to run a larger cooler. I run twins but use a 935 style oil cooler in the nose and have a thermostatic controlled fan for stop and go. Oil temp actually ran too cool and had to put a higher T-stat. 15K plus, 1,100+ HP ZERO problems.

Interesting, I have a big oil cooler in the nose and a fender cooler no oil temp issues at all. The car is a track rat so stop and go is not on the list of things to tolerated. I see the most critical issue as shut down. We run typical 30 minute sessions with a few 60 minute sessions and when you come in with only a half lap cool down everything from the driver to the brakes is hot. According to the Garrett website water cooling continues to thermally siphon after shut down to control heat soak into the bearing cartridge which led me to think about maintaining water flow for a few minutes after shut down in the paddock.

Need to read a little more ......... and thanks for the input, I think I would enjoy 1100HP!

awesome, they work great too..... Brian, any closer to having heat boxes for mine???
Cheers
Davinder.

Finaly together and running, not finished but much closer.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365383192.jpg
.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365383336.jpg

Nice car!
If it's still too loud a couple small turn down pipes can be added the the waste gate mufflers.