Possible Porsche 930 Purchase - Advice Needed

[16Volt]

There are to me 2 different drive-ability issues.

1. Cut out - this is the full "hitting a wall" cut out when you are deep into boost (75%-90% throttle)
2. Cylinder drop - this feels like it has a cyl cutting in an out. Not a hard missfire just a subtle lack of power then it cutting back in. You can feel this under boost and during steady state cruise. Sorta of like going up and down one click on the ebrake. I could be convinced that the motor is just running too fat and is loading up.

I am hoping that between fixing the exhaust leak, tune up that #2 will go away.

[krasuskyp]

1) do you know if your WG opening? Mine was frozen shut from lack of use and lack of WOT when I got mine...

2) might well need mixture / timing tweak - prob nothing major

[16Volt]

I believe the WG is opening as I dont hit the cutoff all the time. Its a Tial unit with what I have been told is a 1bar spring. I suppose going down to a .8 spring would also be a viable test. On all the Tial units I have owned I have never changed springs, how hard is that to do?

I mostly agree on the tweaking as well. I hope to know more after John digs in and possibly the warmer plugs could help here as well.

[oilonly]

I suppose going down to a .8 spring would also be a viable test. On all the Tial units I have owned I have never changed springs, how hard is that to do?

Not that hard, i did it with my son though so i could keep pressure on the two parts. Make sure you squeeze it together nice and don't be afraid to double check. I like.8 bar better with the headers i'm using.

[16Volt]

Great, thanks for the info.

The good news is that day to day the car seems to be happier and happier as the miles pile on. Likely that some of that is just us becoming accustomed to each other, its going to be real hard going back to the daily driver consistently. That's probably why I haven't washed it yet, no reason to leave it in the garage.

[oilonly]

Just to be clear when i opened my Tial wastegate up there were two springs in there, the larger .8 spring and a smaller .2 spring inside it. I removed the .2 bar spring. I am still thinking about buying a .7 as I think that would be perfect for me.

[TT Gasman]

I believe they use the .8 and the .2 spring to make 1 Bar. So taking away the .2 spring should leave it .8 ?

[oilonly]

Originally Posted by TT Gasman

I believe they use the .8 and the .2 spring to make 1 Bar. So taking away the .2 spring should leave it .8 ?

Yes TT, that's it.

[16Volt]

Been awhile since I updated this. Here goes in case anyone is tired of reading my dumb question(s) of the day in the other threads.

1300 mile update....still.

I once owned an 87 16V Scirocco. It was my first German car and for the most part the first thing I ever turned a serious wrench on. I bought it because a fellow flight school student who was from Germany talked me into buying it. The car brought me to a community and to this day to nearly every single person in my life I consider a friend. That car took me through my life as my only car and only hobby from 1997 to 2004/5. I took it from stock to a 1.8L, 2.0L, 276 cammed NA car, boosted, boosted on stand alone. That car was who I was, where I wanted to go and the sole embodiment of my life accomplishments. I built a community of friends around it, organized cruises, shows, dyno days and tech days.

One night someone stole it and gutted it. My life stopped. I watched as everything I loved and valued crumbled, usually from the bottom of a bottle. Friends, relationships, community, all were either gone or too painful to bear. I moved on to Saab Viggen and tried to rebuild and nurture my love of cars. I just couldn’t do it. Years passed, I lost touch in meaningful ways with all the friends I had made through cars. People married and had kids and built new connections, I stayed behind.

In 2009 I bought a 77 Rabbit and began again. That car lead me back to life I lost/left. It also lead me to an 87 Cabriolet and later the E24. There is however one place I could not get back to, the tool box. Anytime I tried to convince myself to do something mechanical I just froze and thought about all the blood sweat and tears I had into the Scirocco and how someone could just come and take that away. Instead I usually just dropped the cars off and paid to have the work done. I became and obsessive car polisher. A big part of wrenching on a car for me was/is not what I was doing but who I was doing it with. I have never been a "putter away the hours" in a garage by myself type of guy. Unless of course its polishing something. That is until the last two days.

I told you that story to tell you this one.

The 930 is terrifying to me in many if not all conceivable ways. Cost, power, complexity etc. I however had a moment tonight in the garage with the car. I got out my tools and went to work. Men built this engine, I can disassemble it. Sure, I may break something but it can be repaired/replaced. For the first time since the Scirocco I actually turned my mind off and all those fears off and dug in. It felt good to be invested in the car in way which didn’t involve a receipt or a bunch of micro fiber cloths.

So where does that completely unnecessary info leave us? Oh, that’s right, calling AAA to have my car and its box of engine parts sent to someone who knows wtf they are doing. Just kidding…ok maybe not.
I got the upper manifold off with a minimal amount of struggle.


IMG_5718 by thecrashingdoor, on Flickr

The hardest part was the damn decel valve. Seriously, I was leaning towards keeping it but after tonight, its history if I don’t need it.


IMG_5724 by thecrashingdoor, on Flickr


IMG_5725 by thecrashingdoor, on Flickr

I confirmed where the black line which had the hole in it went and I can now replace it completely. Going to the shop tomorrow to pick up some new hose clamps which actually have a 5mm head on them so I’m not trying to cram a screw driver into impossibly deep/inaccessible areas to remove vacuum lines. Also picking up a set of shorty screwdrivers. This continues to be a lifesaving tool in cramped spaces. Cheap ass ratcheting screwdriver thingy to the goddamn rescue.


IMG_5726 by thecrashingdoor, on Flickr

The 930’s engine bay is cramped to say the least. With every old stuck on hose I envied those who just pull the whole damn motor out. With the motor out this would be a joy to work on. Seriously. I think that’s the genius of the Porsche design, with the motor removed everything you could ever want access too is right there. With other cars there is crap spread all over the engine bay getting in the way of other crap, attached to different crap. You get the idea. With the 911 motor it’s all right there, just figure out what layer you need to remove stuff to and bingo. Well bingo if the motor is out, with the motor in you are in for some skinned knuckles and some cursing.

Im probably being a bit dramatic but hear me now, want to work on your 911 motor? Give serious thought to investing the time to drop it and do everything at once. Thanks for reading folks.

[Ronnie's.930]

I want to point out another common area for a air leak that I see in one of your pictures above - the spout that is on one of the two diverter valve housing end caps. The spout is pressed in there, and loosens with time/age, and it is a good idea to put some good ole' JB Weld around the perimeter. I put some on with a small screwdriver, and spread it out nicely with my finger (my middle one, Paul) - looks just fine if you take care when putting it there. Don't do like Brando (quatrorunner) and use a whole friggen tube of the stuff and then put it on with a tooth brush!!!!!

And good job on getting your hands dirty so soon!

[16Volt]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

I want to point out another common area for a air leak that I see in one of your pictures above - the spout that is on one of the two diverter valve housing end caps. The spout is pressed in there, and loosens with time/age, and it is a good idea to put some good ole' JB Weld around the perimeter. I put some on with a small screwdriver, and spread it out nicely with my finger (my middle one, Paul) - looks just fine if you take care when putting it there. Don't do like Brando (quatrorunner) and use a whole friggen tube of the stuff and then put it on with a tooth brush!!!!!

Can I use bathroom caulk from a gun and use a spatula?

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

Can I use bathroom caulk from a gun and use a spatula?

Sure, but if you do, you're getting one of these moon x 3 smileys!

[DohertyCM]

Drop the motor!

You will not struggle with anything. ...It's really easy to do and you will feel alot less intimidated. ...hell if you can work on a scirroco, then this will be cake! Especially with this forum.

[jwasbury]

Dropping the engine isn't a huge deal. The hardest part is getting the car high enough in the air to have clearance to remove the engine. Once the car is that high, your next problem is do you have a jack that goes high enough to support the engine while the car is so far above the floor? It can all be done by getting creative with a couple floor jacks and some large wood blocks, but it is a bit intimidating when your 500lb engine is balanced precariously on a block of wood sitting on the 3" pad of your floor jack. Like most things, it becomes less intimidating after you've done it once.

The other thing is, when you start modifying the cars, often the engine access improves. Mine has all the emissions junk removed, the long neck intercooler and 965 style bypass valve completely eliminate the clunky factory bypass assembly. Mine also has distributorless crank fire ignition, so the dizzy isn't crammed in there between the compressor outlet and engine fan. Once I remove the intercooler (which is generally mandatory on any 930 to get any meaningful engine access from the top), I can easily get to spark plugs and other stuff.

I didn't appreciate just what a huge difference all that is until I started poking around this 1987 930 I just purchased. This one has a 100% stock engine with all the emission trimmings. I finally understand why people say they do a partial engine drop to change spark plugs. There is so much emission crap on the drivers side of the engine, it's impossible to get at the plugs from the top without removing a lot of plumbing and hardware. Unless you live in Cali, pull all the crap off the car. Keep it in a box in case you ever want to sell the car or move to Cali.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Noah930

But I wound up buying a car with 67K original miles, and now my car's got over 100K still-original miles on it. So not every 930 has a motor that goes sour at 50K miles.

Which car were you referring to here? Confusing.

[Oheggem]

Not sure you noticed but this thread is 6 years old.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Oheggem

Not sure you noticed but this thread is 6 years old.

Yes, I know. I was talking with him yesterday about this thread.

[turbo ride]

I agree. 16Volt - start a new thread. Clean start. Back to basics. What are it’s current symptoms? What work has been done? All that stuff.

Brandon
‘91 Turbo

[16Volt]

Finally got my account reset on these forums.

462whp of TurboKraft magic.

I'm still just learning it on the track, this was a 'off' day where I couldnt get into the flow, all over the track, and I forgot it was set on low boost lol. Anyway, good to be back here.

[sugarwood]

Congrats. Glad the train wreck is behind you