Ducati 1098S V R1200S comparison.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Mad Otter

I'm not generalizing...cause I know lots of duc riders that rip, but...there are tons of ducs up here in the bay area that aren't being ridden to 25% of their potential. So to Shreddr's comment about "posing"...hmmm, proof is in the parking lot at Alice's.

I agree, plenty of Ducati riders fall into the category of wankers more interested in style and appearances then riding, the same could be said of many Harley riders (no offence intended). Judging by the used bikes covered in expensive farkle with almost no miles on the clock and never ridden in the rain, it would appear that Ducatis are considered trophy bikes by well off city dwellers. They are something to be seen with rather then ridden in anger. Hell I saw one example that had been ridden like a cruiser, the greatest lean angle that bike had ever seen was when it was on the side stand. Apparently the guy sold it and bought a Harley.

I don’t fit that mold, I don’t ware expensive designer leathers or hang out at coffee shops and pubs showing of my bike. I prefer to ride alone, away from the city during week days so there is minimal traffic. I ride as quick as is prudent for the road conditions but unfortunately that’s often fast enough to get me locked up if I get caught.

[shreddr]

Owen, I was definitely not calling you a poser, and it sounds like we ride in similar ways. One comment about the Duc that really interested me, was how the low windscreen gave you less noise. If I rode my R12S without earplugs I would be deaf by now. I have noticed that just standing up a bit gets me into clean air and much less noise. I wonder if any of the aftermarket windscreens might help.

Enjoy that 1098 its a beauty!

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Troy Bayliss won the 2008 WSBK championship on a 1980 against R1’s and GSXR’s, so I guess that’s makes it a “Superbike”.

Not that it makes any difference, but I'm pretty sure he won the championship on a 1198cc Ducati. That's why they homologated the "1098R" (the red one with the black fairing lower) for the 2008 model year and it actually was a full 1198cc.

[Moybin]

OwenM:

Could we get some stats on you, personally? Height, weight, approx. age? I'm 6'2", 235 lbs. If you happen to be 5'7" 145 lbs. then your comparison is nice and all, but not very relevant to me personally. The bikes are all built to one specification sheet, the rider/operators are not.

Reason I ask is that the Duc 848 in white has caught my eye. I love my R11S, and have no intentions of purchasing another BMW as long as I live, unless I found the right GS. The 1098 is hot, but as pointed out most of them don't get shoved to the 25% performance line. The 848 just seems the better Duc for me.

And unlike the Bay or Long Island or metro mega burg, the midwest (1) doesn't have twisties to speak of, and; (2) with the infestation of H-D a Duc would be taken for yet-another-rice-burner until you smoked the Gixxer next to you.

[X-Triple]

Originally Posted by Moybin

OwenM:

Could we get some stats on you, personally? Height, weight, approx. age? I'm 6'2", 235 lbs. If you happen to be 5'7" 145 lbs. then your comparison is nice and all, but not very relevant to me personally. The bikes are all built to one specification sheet, the rider/operators are not.

Reason I ask is that the Duc 848 in white has caught my eye. I love my R11S, and have no intentions of purchasing another BMW as long as I live, unless I found the right GS. The 1098 is hot, but as pointed out most of them don't get shoved to the 25% performance line. The 848 just seems the better Duc for me.

And unlike the Bay or Long Island or metro mega burg, the midwest (1) doesn't have twisties to speak of, and; (2) with the infestation of H-D a Duc would be taken for yet-another-rice-burner until you smoked the Gixxer next to you.

Plus 1 on your stats please!

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by Moybin

OwenM:

Could we get some stats on you, personally? Height, weight, approx. age? I'm 6'2", 235 lbs. If you happen to be 5'7" 145 lbs. then your comparison is nice and all, but not very relevant to me personally. The bikes are all built to one specification sheet, the rider/operators are not.

.

Having come from a cycling racing background, it always amazes me that none of the sport bike manufacturers have ever offered different frame sizes for different sized riders. The analogy is pretty obvious, and one size does not fit all, nor does putting higher bars and lower pegs make them all adaptable. Seems like a Small/Medium/Large frame offering would go a long way to making the bikes so much more ergonomically acceptable. These would probably require custom ordering, but we all line up for the new bikes as it is, and it might be just a difference in a subframe or headstock piece. Looks like there is an opportunity!

[OwenM]

I am pushing 50, 5’ 10” and 195lbs, I obviously fit the mold that Ducati used when working out the riding position for the 848-1098-1198. The reason the aggressive forward lean works for me is because of the tank and the way I can lean my stomach on it for support. Due to this support I can lift my hands of the bars completely or take as much load on my tummy as required to relieve all strain on the wrists, this works great for sports riding as I can brake hard without putting any pressure on the bars which aids control and confidence. I don’t suffer the wrist pain and tingling I did on the R12S after even modest length rides.
If it where not for this tummy support the low bars on the 1098 would be intolerable, but with it life is good.
When I attempt to rest on the tank of the R12S the seat is unbearable and the plastic tank cover is not intended to take that sort of load anyway.

How well the Duc works for the individual will depend on how well they fit, if you cant get that tummy support happening its not going to be in any way optimal.

The 848 is a good option and with around 120hp it has ample power. The top end power of the 1098 and 1198 is over the top for road use but the extra low and mid rang torque is useful, you don’t have to use the top end if you don’t want to.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by shreddr

Having come from a cycling racing background, it always amazes me that none of the sport bike manufacturers have ever offered different frame sizes for different sized riders. The analogy is pretty obvious, and one size does not fit all, nor does putting higher bars and lower pegs make them all adaptable. Seems like a Small/Medium/Large frame offering would go a long way to making the bikes so much more ergonomically acceptable. These would probably require custom ordering, but we all line up for the new bikes as it is, and it might be just a difference in a subframe or headstock piece. Looks like there is an opportunity!

Having owned a high end bicycle dealership for several years, I know what you are referring to-however, the inventory logistics would be brutal not to mention expensive. Motorcycle dealers usually commit to a model year allocation up front before the season begins so you'd have to order a range and that would add to your floor plan cost. Manufacturers would need to project size requirements based on a bell curve of the intended user characteristics, probably increasing leftover inventory which is already an industry problem. But the thing that would make it really not work is that handling characterisitcs are determined by how the engine is located in the entire package with regard to center of gravity, etc. You start making different size frames, you alter this center of gravity, wheelbase, etc. and, let's say you had small, medium and large frame choices, you'd have three bikes of the same model handling differently for each frame size. Not practical.

[EenyBear]

Originally Posted by cageyar

Having owned a high end bicycle dealership for several years, I know what you are referring to-however, the inventory logistics would be brutal not to mention expensive. Not practical.

True, no doubt. I, too, am a cyclist... and getting a bicycle fitted is always my step after buying (stem length, bar width, saddle position & height "duh", crank length, etc.). Also considered are ring and cassette choices (time trials vs climbing, etc.)

However, it always amazes me that when someone talks about using Helibars or lowered pegs the "love the one-size-fits-all or leave it" crowd jumps up and criticizes a legitimate attempt to fit the bike to the rider.

Performance mods are applauded but the "bike-rider fit" performance implications are all too often ignored or misunderstood.

I, for one, am a tall wide guy and I wouldn't trade my slightly higher, slightly set back, and slightly wider helibars for anything. Lowered footpegs are under consideration.

Again, I agree that "sm med lrg" frames would be a logistics nightmare for relatively small production runs and parts stock. Perhaps easier for a naked bike, but still a pain.

Cheers,
Ian

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by EenyBear

However, it always amazes me that when someone talks about using Helibars or lowered pegs the "love the one-size-fits-all or leave it" crowd jumps up and criticizes a legitimate attempt to fit the bike to the rider.
Performance mods are applauded but the "bike-rider fit" performance implications are all too often ignored or misunderstood.

I guess the way I think about it, perhaps a little unfairly, it's like buying a Trek Madrone carbon fiber and then turning the handlebars upside down so you can sit more upright. I'm blessed with a rather long reach, 36" (I wish I had a 36" waist to go with them), so the R12S bars feel perfect to me. And I think having a forward cant is more comfortable than sitting bolt upright. Plus, I get zero buffeting since from the shoulders up, I'm above the flow over the screen-the wind hits me in the chest which helps keeps me from having too much weight on my hands-I can feel the increased pressure when we slow down for traffic or in town. Also, these so-called sport bikes need some weight over the front wheel for really spirited cornering-the more you shove your mass back, the less I'm confident in the front wheel being planted when you're really pushing. Conceptually, it starts to take the bike out of it's design parameters. The seat for example works well riding suspended by your arms, hands and your feet. You alter your position upright, now there's concerns about the seat being not plush enough. Or maybe I'm just too anal about making non-performance changes and I should live and let live. (Don't lower your pegs, please...)

[EenyBear]

Don't lower your pegs, please...

Agreed. Can't bring myself to do it.

I will, however, keep shopping for a catless header to go with my shiny new Techlusion (lovin' that wee device a lot).

By the way... accompanied with a claim that his back needed a rest, a buddy of mine just parked his Vegas 8-Ball in favour of a CanAm Spyder... so all bets are off. It's not that the Spyder raises an eyebrow... it's the leap he made from a slick chopper-ish bike to a trike that has us all a bit concerned... in a good way.

I guess that's the point made by many. Change the entire bike... not just bits of it. I happen to disagree but we're all pals here after all. Right?

Cheers,
Ian

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by EenyBear

By the way... accompanied with a claim that his back needed a rest, a buddy of mine just parked his Vegas 8-Ball in favour of a CanAm Spyder... so all bets are off. It's not that the Spyder raises an eyebrow... it's the leap he made from a slick chopper-ish bike to a trike that has us all a bit concerned... in a good way.

The reason his back hurts on the 8 Ball is that bike has little rear wheel travel with a really crappy shock.
I'm starting to see those Spyders around-one went past my house just yesterday. Frankly, I don't understand the Spyder. If you can't lean the thing, I'd rather get a convertible sports car and at least be comfortable.

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by cageyar

frankly, i don't understand the spyder. If you can't lean the thing, i'd rather get a convertible sports car and at least be comfortable.:d

+1

[John Lyon]

Originally Posted by cageyar

Frankly, I don't understand the Spyder. If you can't lean the thing, I'd rather get a convertible sports car and at least be comfortable.

I saw about 80 of them in a big group out here in So Cal - many custom painted and lots 2-up. As a utilitarian commuter, I like the fuel efficiency and the wide/flat tires that will likely get much higher miles than a motorcycle, but if you can't split lanes, I'd rather be comfortable also.

[Corky]

I can't argue with everybody, but I do know I love my DUC. Not quite as easy as an "S" to ride but I'm all smiles when I ride it. I like the RAW edge of the Ducati power and handling. I am not a poser either. BTW, I love my BMW's too.

[sfarson]

Originally Posted by OwenM

...

The R1200RT is more of a concern to me, its big, heavy and the seat is relatively high so the likelihood of a manoeuvring mishap is much higher then the Duc. With all that fairing and exposed panniers its going to cost if it falls over.

Just FWIW, someone shoved the R12RT over in a motel parking lot back in June (Phone call from the front desk is a wonderful way to start the new day). The mirror popped off and I shoved in back in. The cylinder head cover had some scratches as did the side bag lid. THAT WAS IT. Simple and inexpensive insurance replacements.

BTW, riding a 1098 here, I wouldn't place it so far ahead of the S. In the real world of mortals riding these bikes most of the time on great roads, the sporty boxer S has its plusses.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by sfarson

Just FWIW, someone shoved the R12RT over in a motel parking lot back in June (Phone call from the front desk is a wonderful way to start the new day). The mirror popped off and I shoved in back in. The cylinder head cover had some scratches as did the side bag lid. THAT WAS IT. Simple and inexpensive insurance replacements.

That’s good to know, I will install a pair of the BMW plastic head cover protectors as some level of protection and leave it at that. I expect most of the time I will not be using the panniers so I wounder what gets damage without them fitted. The muffler looks very vulnerable.

Originally Posted by sfarson

BTW, riding a 1098 here, I wouldn't place it so far ahead of the S. In the real world of mortals riding these bikes most of the time on great roads, the sporty boxer S has its plusses.

I purchased the 1098 as an experiment, I have always wanted a Duc but was put off by the extreme riding position, it was not until I rode one that I realised they where not the disaster I expected. A test ride or two does not really tell you what a big is like to live with so I went a head and purchased with the intent of selling it if it did not work out. However it was soon apparent that the Duc was a keeper and the R12S could be retired and replaced by a tourer that was pillion friendly so the wife could experience motorcycling for the first time. I have no idea how that will pan out, but time will tell.

The R12S has some practical advantages, but for riding it’s the 1098 all the way for this little black duck.

[John Lyon]

Originally Posted by OwenM

and replaced by a tourer that was pillion friendly so the wife could experience motorcycling for the first time. I have no idea how that will pan out, but time will tell.

Does she know what's headed her way? If she's anything like mine, good luck with that one...

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by John Lyon

Does she know what's headed her way? If she's anything like mine, good luck with that one...

no doubt..i offered to get an RT to take the wife riding, she said she wasn't interested, that was enough for me. the way she back seat drives in the car is bad enough, i couldn't imagine what it would be like with her on the back of a bike. all i know is i would be taking something I like a lot and turning into something WE don't..

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by shreddr

no doubt..i offered to get an RT to take the wife riding, she said she wasn't interested, that was enough for me. the way she back seat drives in the car is bad enough, i couldn't imagine what it would be like with her on the back of a bike. all i know is i would be taking something I like a lot and turning into something WE don't..

They key, as shreddr knows because I told him when we went for ride, is to marry one who rides. In 1976, I was a motorcycle tech at Ralph's Cycle in South Orange, NJ and I saw somone ride back to the service entrance on a Honda CB350. When the rider took off her helmet and I realized it was a female, I bolted for the door and beat the other tech, Bruce, out of the back entrance. 33 years later, I'm still working on her bike, although, she doesn't ride quite as often. But I never get the pushback on anything I want to do or buy with motorcycles. You've got to b e thankful for that.