Tax by mile driven

[Charlie V]

Oregon launching new program to tax drivers per mile | Fox News

It is coming Canada.

BC has a carbon tax on each litre at the pump. And, it goes up each year. They say it is to be "green". I say BS.

Hang onto your wallet!!!!

[upwardr]

New tax... What a Novell idea.

[canuck964]

I actually don't have any issues with a tax per mile strategy and is certainly more fair compared to our current model of tolling just two bridges.

BC may have a slight advantage over other jurisdictions in that everyone has to go to an ICBC agent to get their insurance so instead of any costly tracking devices (that will certainly violate our rights to privacy) we can just have the insurance agent go to the vehicle and check the milage.

Before everyone jumps all over me and says what about fraud and people disconnecting their odometers .... certainly there will be some level of fraud but it is a cost benefit situation. I believe the level of fraud in the system would be less than the cost of administering a more complex tracking system. No system is ever going to be fraud free.

For a committed fiscal right winger I'm actually in favour of another ..... more controversial idea ..... use part of this milage tax and part from increased property taxes from increase property values near transit to pay 100% for transit.

Get rid of all the costly transit police, ticketing machines etc and just make all transit free.

I believe it will take a lot of vehicles off the roads. Increased property taxes is justified in the additional increase in property values by transit routes.

I will pay more to drive but it should be less congested or certainly we wont need to build as many roads.

I, for one, am willing to pay for this.

Flame on .............

[canuck964]

I would also add that if transit was free we would not need to spend additional money to implement a costly system to tax separately for peak times and to solve congestion etc. I think most of us would take transit whenever you could to avoid driving in congestion.

The beauty of our skytrain system is that the incremental cost of increased riders is very small. I have to complement the government of the day for implementing an automated system. However this is not the case with buses.

I am always impressed with the speed by which a hockey or football crowd is cleared by skytrain after each game.

[Charlie V]

canuck - interesting points.

[canuck964]

While I'm on a roll ......

Charge for advertising everywhere on transit ..... how about riding on the Telus Skytrain.

Put TV monitors on every skytrain and sell advertising (just like what you see on downtown elevators).

Sell every available square inch at each station with advertising. How about naming rights at each station.

I'm sure someone with a marketing degree can think of lots of other ways to sell.

Don't worry about the public's reaction to raising funds via advertising by any means possible .... why should they complain the transit is free and the fact they are a captive audience is the price of admission.

Hire those guys in Japan to cram more people onto skytrain at rush hour. Again the service is FREE.

You want to open a Starbucks at a transit station well it is going to cost you a LOT of $$$$$.

But a busy free transit system will give you lots of customers.

You want to open an office near skytrain well your property taxes are going to be big $$$$$ but this will be offset by the fact you will find it easier to hire good employees as they will have access to free transit. You may even be able to pay them less than a comparable employer who is not near transit.

By blind luck I managed to buy an office building near skytrain for my business. At the time of purchase skytrain was not even contemplated near my office but within ten years the new skytrain line was built 1/2 block away. What a difference it has made for hiring staff, access to meetings downtown, shopping downtown, hockey and football games etc etc

[Reddog2]

I can see this all happening in BC.

We are a little slower in AB and still struggling with provincial sales tax and toll road concepts.

[canuck964]

You guys in Alberta have a good revenue stream from your oil production so it has helped you to avoid provincial sales taxes and toll roads etc.

Off topic but if we BC'er would get our heads out of our asses and allow for the pipelines to go thru, you guys , BC and Canada in general will benefit from the instant lift in Alberta oil prices. I don't think the vast majority of Canadian realize that Alberta oil is selling at a 20% - 30% discount because it cannot be shipped out efficiently.

Back on topic.

The concept of road pricing is inevitable. I am surprised that there is not a bigger uproar from those who live south of the Fraser over the inequity of tolling just two bridges and the possibility of a third bridge being tolled. The MLA's from Surrey, Langley, Delta, White Rock should all be feeling a lot of heat from their constituents. BTW I'm in Burnaby so it doesn't really affect me but I don't like the inequities.

While the idea of tolling differently for peak and non peak hours is a good concept. How does one do this effectively. Certainly the idea of a GPS tracking device is NOT going to fly. Geographically there are only a few points of entry from the south and west side into Vancouver. You have to use the Burrard, Granville or Cambie St bridges. But on the east side there are numerous roads that you can use. Do you block off all but a few. How would that help congestion.

Also Vancouver is not the only destination what about Richmond, Burnaby etc. How would you meter travel at peak times to those destinations?

BUT seeing as all politicians cannot make a rational decision if their life depended on it. I am sure we will end up with the billion dollar solution instead of the logical solution.

As you can tell by my rants I have thought about this a lot. Especially as I sit in a long line driving into Vancouver.

Toll highways, congestion fees, road pricing is inevitable. It exists all around the world.

I don't mind having to pay to use the roads. In fact I don't mind paying a lot of $$$$ to use the roads. I just want to see my money going directly into improving the roads, relieving congestion etc.

I don't like paying into general coffers just so some old retired fat journalist can renovate his house on my dime.

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by canuck964

Toll highways, congestion fees, road pricing is inevitable. It exists all around the world.

I don't mind having to pay to use the roads. In fact I don't mind paying a lot of $$$$ to use the roads. I just want to see my money going directly into improving the roads, relieving congestion etc.

I don't like paying into general coffers just so some old retired fat journalist can renovate his house on my dime.

No S H I T!!! Politicians are an amazing breed.

Although, I do like our Transportation Minister Todd Stone. He seems to have a refreshing approach to things. However, that might be the smoke and mirrors the government wants to distract our attention.

[Rolf_Deb]

I doubt it would get passed in BC. 85 electoral districts and the majority in rural areas, they would be punishing rural drivers who have to drive further distances for basic necessities. No political party would take the risk of alienating their voting base.

"use part of this milage tax and part from increased property taxes from increase property values near transit to pay 100% for transit. " I don't see any support from the rest of BC to pay to solve greater Vancouver traffic problems. I certainly wouldn't want my share of a milage tax be used to solve other region's problems.

I doubt residents on the North shore would accept an increase in property taxes to pay for transit infrastructure. Over 2 hours by transit to get to UBC from the North Shore and an aging Sea Bus. The Shore has some of highest property taxes in Greater Vancouver for the least amount of transit return.

I am so happy to be living in the interior.

[canuck964]

Originally Posted by Rolf_Deb

I doubt it would get passed in BC. 85 electoral districts and the majority in rural areas, they would be punishing rural drivers who have to drive further distances for basic necessities. No political party would take the risk of alienating their voting base.

"use part of this milage tax and part from increased property taxes from increase property values near transit to pay 100% for transit. " I don't see any support from the rest of BC to pay to solve greater Vancouver traffic problems. I certainly wouldn't want my share of a milage tax be used to solve other region's problems.

I doubt residents on the North shore would accept an increase in property taxes to pay for transit infrastructure. Over 2 hours by transit to get to UBC from the North Shore and an aging Sea Bus. The Shore has some of highest property taxes in Greater Vancouver for the least amount of transit return.

I am so happy to be living in the interior.

The milage tax would only apply in the GVRD if the funds stay in the GVRD no different that the existing GVRD gas tax that we have now. Of course no interior city would be expected to fund a GVRD transporation solution.

But there are transportation improvement all over the province ..... Vancouver Island Highway, the new Woodlake bypass between Kelowna and Vernon just to name a few. Wouldn't they be expected to be funded by the drivers in those regions if as you say drivers in other parts of BC would not accept paying for GVRD transportation solutions.

As to the comment regarding North shore residents .... it is exactly this kind of mentality that will preclude any sort of solution. What about the residents south of the Fraser who have to endure two and potentially three tolled bridges. I guess its the same old too bad so sad attitude.

If they are going to toll the bridges that cross the Fraser then it is only fair to toll all bridges.

I just want someone to suggest something new cause the old NIMBY attitudes are not going to solve anything.

[Rolf_Deb]

Why does everyone always talk about increasing various forms of end user tax, instead of looking at more effective ways of spending my tax dollars. I’ll proudly be a NIMBY when it comes to additional taxation. Time to look at alternate forms of funding and reducing waste in current government spending, instead of feeding an insatiable spending appetite.

BC already has the highest provincial excise tax on gasoline and diesel.

The Carbon tax is a sham, According to B.C.'s Auditor-General, two-thirds of funds brokered by the Pacific Carbon Trust went to EnCana, the biggest gas company in Canada, and to the Nature Conservancy of Canada, an organization so powerful, it is practically untouchable.
No matter that both organizations were going to undertake their carbon projects anyway; they were glad to take the money, which came from schools and hospitals mandated to be carbon neutral. A cool million dollars from Vancouver and Surrey area schools alone.

Just another example; How can Washington State provide a ferry service similar to BC at a fraction of the cost. Washington State Ferries has fewer routes, fewer boats but actually carries more passengers and more vehicles than our ferry system does. Why isn’t our government at least looking at their model.

Increasing spending on transit isn’t the answer, we should be demanding stronger spending laws, stronger spending watchdogs and higher penalties for fraud spenders.
We need to find a ways of funding [transit] through existing taxes,including the possibility of dipping into the provincial government’s fuel tax.

[Charlie V]

add this to the discussion..

Motor Mouth: Surrendering our driving freedom $50 at a time | Driving

I believe it is only a mastter of time before big brother is tracking our every move.

[Charlie V]

more .....signed this week

http://www.pacificcoastcollaborative.org/Pages/Welcome.aspx

"Expansion of public transportation infrastructure, both within and between urban
areas, has reduced single occupancy vehicle miles travelled, contributing to billions
of dollars of savings in congestion costs. Smart highway technology facilitates a
Positioning Pacific North America for Sustainable Prosperity 5
shift to vehicle miles travelled (VMT) taxes to support highway maintenance while
also encouraging travel choices that alleviate congestion, support ride-sharing, and
reduce greenhouse gas emissions emissions and air pollutants. Vehicles equipped with
real-time GPS-based route navigation systems improve traffic flows and road safety"

Interesting read.

[pksystems]

Wasn't this an April fools day joke a couple years ago in one of the local papers? Blackbox in your car that records everything (speeding/mileage...etc..) and sends it right to the registries. You get a bill the next time you do your registration.

[haycait911]

cars should have hour meters and be taxed by time the engine is running, not miles driven. drives me nuts when I see soccer moms in their escalades and navigators idling for an hour so they can sit in air-conditioned comfort.

[billybek]

They are being taxed by leaving their engines idling, Don.
With the TAX on TAX (on tax) taxation system we have for motor fuels, they are probably paying their fair share.
Maybe when fuel goes over $2 a liter this will change because obviously the price isn't high enough yet to prevent this type of behavior!

[Traveller]

More taxes = more money to pi$$ away.

If they wanted to drum up money, they should tax inefficiency...the inefficiency of politicians. They'd have more money than Fort Knox.