irish vs NYC

[id10t]

https://jalopnik.com/an-irish-pilot-arguing-with-a-new-york-air-traffic-cont-1827842314

[svandamme]

Any time
Any support ticket is escalated to me (3rd line)
By the Irish 2nd line
for any Irish Customer

That happens.

Guaranteed.

[Seahawk]

That was great. Thanks!

[Major Dad]

One of my best buddies is an Aer Lingus Captain on the USA run. Wonder was it him ?

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Major Dad

One of my best buddies is an Aer Lingus Captain on the USA run. Wonder was it him ?

Well, either he or one of his coworkers has their very own Fark thread

https://www.fark.com/comments/10105178/And-now-heres-an-Irish-airline-pilot-arguing-with-a-New-York-air-traffic-controller-over-flying-through-a-storm



Fark thread comments can be more fun than PPOT at times

[pwd72s]

Pretty damned funny...

Reminds me of an oldie...

Arrogant German air traffic control to Pilot: Haven't you been to Frankfurt before?

Pilot: Yes, I have, back in the 1940's. I never landed.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Pretty damned funny...

Reminds me of an oldie...

Arrogant German air traffic control to Pilot: Haven't you been to Frankfurt before?

Pilot: Yes, I have, back in the 1940's. I never landed.

The full story/joke

Allegedly the German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are renowned as a short-tempered lot. They, it is alleged, not only expect one to know one’s gate parking location, but how to get there without any assistance from them.
So it was with some amusement that we (a Pan Am 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747, call sign Speedbird 206.

Speedbird 206: “Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway.”

Ground: “Speedbird 206. Taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven.” The BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.

Ground: “Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?”

Speedbird 206: “Stand by, Ground, I’m looking up our gate location now.”

Ground (with quite arrogant impatience): “Speedbird 206, have you not been to Frankfurt before?”

Speedbird 206 (coolly): “Yes, twice in 1944, but it was dark,… and I didn’t land.”

[pwd72s]

Yes, My Uncle Gordon, a Captain, flew a Boeing to Germany out of England many times. He didn't land either. I have a photo of him in uniform. He's squinting into a California sun...just a kid...barely old enough to sport the moustache he'd grown.

[NY65912]

The Irish dude went directly over my house 3 times!

Funny, at the end he goes straight thru the cell. Should have listened the first time I guess.

[widgeon13]

Years ago when there were T'storms around NYC, coming from Chicago you would be put in a hold over Harrisburg, hated that. Planes below and planes above flying the racetrack. When you got low on fuel it was off to SYR to get fuel. Lots of long evenings in the summer returning from Chitown. Now everything is a ground hold.

[304065]

About the second thing I was taught when I was getting my instrument rating was, never, ever let a guy on the ground tell you what to do when weather is concerned. No matter how good the ground based radar is, or whatever other traffic is doing. The Captain is the final authority for the safety of flight and if the answer is "unable" then it's "unable." If he painted something he didn't want to fly through, thats his prerogative.

[svandamme]

Well sure, but that doesn't mean one can say unable and then fly whatever direction one feels like through NYC's busy airspace...

I would think his radar would have been able to see that cell , before he accepted his takeoff clearance. And that he requested his take off clearance, with a departure heading included, no?

[304065]

Stijn, think about how much time elapses between clearance delivery and the end of the runway at JFK. Plenty of time for the weather picture to change.

And actually, it DOES mean that the Captain can say "unable" and fly whatever direction one wants, if that is necessary to maintain safety of flight. Even if it means disrupting the departure flow.

The controller has a routine that he's working, and he gets upset when Shamrock disrupts that routine, so he starts upbraiding the Captain about "six levels of weather," trying to substitute his own weather judgment for the Captain's. The suggestion is that Shamrock is trying to disrupt the routine to avoid even the most minor turbulence.

The problem with the controller's attitude is that it's coming in conflict with safety of flight. It's not like Shamrock is requesting Direct Dublin for convenience, the Captain clearly says he's unable due to weather, calmly and professionally.

New Yorkers are famous for our attitude, but there's a limit, particularly when people can get killed.

[svandamme]

I would think that saying unable means you are unable to turn left, that does not mean you can pick any direction you want and turn that way as you feel like. Not in a busy airspace with others?


2 captains can say unable and then fly towards eachother, I mean, by your statement they are free to do whatever they want after saying unable.Which to me sounds like utter nonsense,
unable =/= declaring an emergency now is it?


And the ATC has to keep everything seperated.
This attitude you mention, I'm sure the ATC has a lot of stress as well, he's not thinking 1 plane with lives ,he's thinking all those planes with lives
He's not cussing , he's simply explaining why Shamrock is now turning around in circles.

If by your saying unable means you can fly wherever you want, then why was he turning in circles, on orders of the ATC?
clearly he's not free to go wherever he wants now is he?

If he had just taken his initial left turn, it would have been followed up with an almost immediate second left turn toward Greki or Merit and he would have been fine.
Just like the others were fine.
It's not like he had to worry bout microbursts or anything, he was not a landing approach..