Unsafe reentry or unfair advantage.
If what we're now talking about is an unfair advantage (Vettel's intentional move) why not offer Ferrari the chance to swap places.
If racing is the goal, the hero move from the stewards might have been a position swap. If Ferrari refused, then impose the penalty.

If Vettel got an unfair advantage, surrender the place and race for the victory.
Fans win, F1 wins and the stewards get a chance to be relevant without being ridiculous.

a gap means, a space thas is roomy enough for a car to pay through
Do you see such space here?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560163042.jpg

Is sure as hel don't, Vettel closed it.
Hamilton is so close to the wall, he can't move out another mm to find more gap

please note , that the room is closing on whatever gap there already is, making it even smaller.

I don't get it, that's exactly what happened.. they swapped places.

So not sure how your suggestion would do different?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560279923.jpg
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Vettel used up all the space he could to block
He clearly could have held left more but that would have meant Hambone would have taken #1 spot.
Vettel closed the gap when he should have yielded after going off track

His angle changes after he comes back on the track, and it changes away from the direction he was going, to move closer to the wall then he would have if he had kept his steering wheel straight.

Stijn,
Looking at those images it looked to me like Vettel was pretty much a passenger for about 100 meters.
I think the underlying problem has been the Ferrari gets loose in the rear end in some situations. We've seen it before in other races where Hamilton forced Vettel into an error and the car's balance is so fine he lost the rear.
I was watching the telemetry in the last 8 laps and noticed any time Hamilton dropped back he had made up the time very quickly. I also noted LeClerc was catching both Hamilton and Vettel in those last laps.
I wonder if Ferrari told Charles to not get within 5 seconds of Sebastian.

Best
Les

Watching at normal speed it appears to me as if Vettel goes off, rejoins the track and regains control (just), then makes a move to close the gap to the wall.

Sorry, that is not what I was referring to. The announcer asked Toto what he would have done when he was a driver and then made a suggestion, to which Wolff replied something to the effect that he didn't know what he was talking about and that he (Wolff) was never put in that position as was implied.

I know that's vague and I'm not going to review the interview just to prove that you are not close to addressing my comment.

If Vettel's rear end was loose, wouldn't it oversteer and not understeer?

The incident started when the rear of Vettel's car broke loose. He counter steered to keep it from looping. That took him over the grass (or painted surface ) and it looked to me like he just kept it out of the wall on the other side.
I'm surprised he didn't collect Hamilton. Lewis backed off enough to avoid contact. Amazing driving from both.

Best
Les

In the scenario he suggested, the swap would've been immediate. From that point on they would have been free to race; for Vettel to try to regain the lost position.

But this...

This was stupid. They added 5 seconds to his time, so all Ham had to do was stay inside of 5 seconds and he would win.

Horrible decision and horrible show for the fans, who after all are the point of all this. The race literally was over as soon as the stewards handed out their lame decision.

And as far as Toto, of COURSE he's going to defend the verdict. He runs the Mercedes team and it is war out there. Gotta do what he's gotta do.

F! used to settle differences on the track, now it is whiney ***** fests. They are all making so much money that Mercedes and Ferrari play nice. Racing is better when more is on the line and nobody plays nice.

I like how I was auto corrected for the word b/it/c/h. This board is losing it as well. 1984 is here get in line

They don't do that because such a swap is immidiate admission and then they can not appeal it anymore

he was slowing down and already had plenty of track under his wheels he was powering out and steering right to close the gap

It is telling that the 'incident' is the most exciting and talked-about thing to happen in F1 in years. Up until the incident, this was another major league snoozefest. TV were following midfield battles in an attempt to show something - anything! - competitive (i.e., "camera 2, get on that battle for 15th place. Now!"). Had the incident happened in the 70s/80s, it wouldn't have warranted a replay, much less the attention of the stewards. :rolleyes:

I don’t think they can appeal a time penalty, either.

I thought the FIA and Ferrari were best buds? Everyone used to say Ferrari got treated special by them when it came to rules enforcement. Oh well....

hamilton Wolff Mercedes got what they want

vettel Ferrari fans got screwed

no

Vettel screwed himself by going off under pressure. Period.

Can you agree in a lesser car, Hamilton continually locking up at the hairpin would have cost him big time? The car is so good, he could keep screwing up and recover over and over and over again.

I suspect Vettel was driving 100% and Hamilton was probably driving at much less as he did not need to push that hard. So yes, Vettel was on the ragged edge of that car.

All Hamilton had to do was get the hairpin right one time and he would be passing for the lead. I was honestly waiting for it to happen, except Hamilton kept messing up the hairpin and delaying the inevitable.

The hairpin was covered in marbles so I can see why he and a lot of others were locking up there- but I agree the only way by the Ferrari would have been in a corner. You should also consider what Hamilton did at Monaco a few weeks earlier- not one lockup on tires that were way past their sell by.

I think Vettel brought this on himself. While I sure don't like races decided by a penalty (and think they should have been told to switch positions and continue racing) the stewards are there to enforce the rules. They did- and they saw more than we did- and Vettel paid the price.

And this is far from the first time Vettel has choked when Hamilton was pushing him. It's almost a pattern. I'd love to see Ferrari return to winning form but I don't think Vettel is the guy. He can be very fast but his emotions clearly get the better of him.

I think Vettel is pushing way more out of that car than it really has. Hence his pushing past its limits while the Mercedes is out on a cruise.


I still think Mercedes were asked to turn down the cars and make this race interesting.

Vettel was 2.5 second ahead after the incident, Lewis asked for more power, he got a setting, he ran up on Vettel in half a lap. I am not buying Mercedes were being out raced that weekend. I think this was manufactured. It felt very Nascarish to me.

The commentators kept going on about how there is no way to appeal. But I think that only applies to the decision right there and then. According to the FIA:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.vettels-canada-penalty-the-stewards-decision-in-full.LgUCvccAD1MrhGG6oYkZs.html

What I have read:

"The 2019 Sporting Regulations state that a time penalty, drive-through, stop-and-go, reprimand or grid drop cannot be appealed."

All in all I wished that either Vettel or Hamilton would had have won the race without any interference by the stewards.

But it is what it is. We all need to get over it.

I think that there are a number of drivers who could get more out of that car than Vettel. Riccardo and Verstappen to name two. It was much faster in the straights and all he had to do was make it wider in the corners.

But he went off.

Again.

If he really thinks he's the best all he needs to do is prove it. But he can't.

I'm pretty sure he'll retire at the end of this season. If he doesn't Ferrari should retire him.

Look at what Riccardo did to Bottas. In a freaking Renault. And Bottas was driving the same car as Hamilton has.

Vettel is a whining crybaby. F' him.

Paul Ricard
 

Fair is fair, maybe Hamilton should have rec'd a penalty for his off/ return to track
which surely forced Verstappen off track during FP2. IMO

And Vettel drives with his emotions...again.

Seriously. WTF? His car was good for 3rd on the grid.

And congrats to McLaren for clawing their way back!

I think the race will be a high-speed test session for Mercedes.

McLaren has been quietly getting the job done. Kudos to them.

I got the impression his spirit is broken, temporarily.

All it will take is a good spanking and a good cry and he'll be good as new. Or collapse.

I was really happy to see that too.

Vettle got married after the Canadian GP. Maybe that is why is was in such a bad mood today.

Not the best of honeymoons for sure......

Indycar qualifying was electric. This was not .

I personally think that Paul Ricard is the single worst circuit on the calendar. It looks like they put stripes in a giant parking lot. There is so much runoff that no move is challenging of dangerous. Bring back Magny Cours.

Well said! Boring race, unlikeable track. F1 needs a fix.

You are not wrong but I think it’s got more to do with the cars, the tires and the Mercedes domination. Last lap was good and that’s it.

On the track itself I disagree with you - I was lucky enough to drive this track 20y ago, and also Magny cours both in track days - for me Paul Ricard / le castellet is a fantastic track and much better than magny Cours. Then again at the time it had no chicanes and lots of ballsy corners.

I really think it’s the series - and it’s inability to create close racing - most races this year have been bores. I betcha this afternoons indy race will be 10x more action packed.