And how did Racing Point find out: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/48466/this-is-how-racing-point-discovered-renault-s-illegal-braking-system.html... What an ass.

So it doesn’t violate the technical regulations for the car, but it violates the sporting regulations for the driver. That’s a wee bit of horse****.

Yeah, I don't get that either. It's not illegal, but we're gonna DQ you.

one explanation of the reason for the penalty, https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/what-did-renault-do-wrong-why-it-was-disqualified-japanese-gp

It’s just odd that two different portions of the regulations could be in conflict.

Exactly. Also, you probably had this for a while, but we're only gonna DQ you for Japan results.

If it was a clever run around the rules, just make it specifically illegal henceforth, and don't penalize them for being clever... If it was flagrant cheating, DQ for the season (Oh but they need all the teams for next year). I bet they sort of settled, FIA saying it's not technically illegal but you know it breaks the intent of the rules, we could kick you out, take a 9 points penalty and move on... It's always a disgruntled employee that lets the cat out of the bag ;-)

Official statement from Renault (who had until today to appeal):

We regret the Stewards' decision and, in particular, the severity of the sanction applied. In our opinion, the penalty is not proportionate to any benefit the drivers derived, especially when used within the context of a system confirmed fully legal and innovative. It is also inconsistent with previous sanctions for similar breaches, as acknowledged by the Stewards in their decision, but expressed without further argumentation.

However, since we have no new evidence to bring other than that already produced to demonstrate the legality of our system, we do not wish to invest further time and effort in a sterile debate in front of the International Court of Appeal concerning the subjective appreciation, and therefore sanction, related to an aid that reduces the driver workload without enhancing the performance of the car.

We have therefore decided not to appeal the Stewards’ decision.

Formula One will always be an arena for the relentless search for the slightest possible opportunities for competitive advantage. It is what we have always done and will continue to do, albeit with stronger internal processes before innovative solutions are brought on track.

(unsaid: also, next time those F$$#%s at Sport Pesa or whatever they're called need a vote for a less ridiculous name, they can stick it up their Pesa ;-)

Back in the day, I didn't care much for hambone. Figured he was kind of a doooosh.
but with the constant handlers and filters making him behave like a gentleman, that opinion softened. But he stepped in it, his handlers took a day off and his true self came out and he is a doooosh. Prolly drinking again and now he;s trying to walk it back.
Luckily we still have Alonso to put him in his place.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-responds-to-backlash-over-vegan-comments/

IOW, do as I SAY but not as I DO

He's the best driver around, maybe as good as Shumi and that is saying a lot.
But IMO he's a

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1571942132.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1571942132.jpg

Quick and dirty translation from Renault's manager C Abiteboul re: the penalty and the incriminated brake balance system... thought it interesting...


Abiteboul was talking to the french press and admitted that the system incriminated by "ex-force India Racing Point Sport Pesa" was giving a "very small level of assistance to the drivers", in the sense that it reduced the workload slightly but in no way made the car any faster. He regrets the lack of clarity of the rule on that point..

« it was a real satisfaction to demonstrate that our system was legal per the rules. That was also our feeling when we read the extremely comprehensive technical documents supplied by Racing point, but they misunderstood how the system works".

"Bottom line is the driver has 2 less pushes of a toggle to do per lap. I'll let you decide, based on the amount of settings they must change on the wheel per lap, given their level of experience, if that really is something that would make the car faster or not."

"We are technically legal in how we approached this, but it seems we are not following the spirit of Article 27.1 which is completely obsolete in a modern F1. . I say that because there are many driver help systems in that grey area, and nothing in there clearly states which ones are allowed and disallowed. We talk about that with many other teams all the time. Take the example of the KERS deployment over a lap. Technically it constitutes a huge driver help, but nothing formally specifies if you are or aren't allowed to do that automatically. Yet it is tacitly allowed right now. Same with our system, we thought. Automatic KERS deployment is a huge driver help, if it was not automated, that would require a lot of driver management. So again this all a subjective grey area, and if we appealed this, we were gonna fight over subjective points of views and frankly we didn't want to open that can of worms."

Abiteboul also heavily criticized the way Racing point approched this using an ex-renault employee.

« That's really unusual, generally {if you suspect something is off] you ask the FIA for clarification and for a technical bulletin, outside of the race week end. This happens all the time between teams. This time they broke with tradition and prepared a 12 page dossier that was ready weeks ago, and waited for the right opportunity to use it, when disqualifying us would allow them to score more points ».

Think he perfectly summed up Racing Points angle of attack, they had a loaded gun and waited for the right time to use it. All part of the game when millions and championship positions are at stake

Rumour is Renault are considering leaving F1 so the FIA were never going to punish them severely

I've been on the receiving end of a trivial rule clarification, a rival team we were fighting with asked the FIA for a clarification of a radio aerial I'd positioned in a 'no bodywork' zone. Wasn't done for performance but was a neatly package position for it. I hadn't broken any rules as an aerial isn't bodywork but the clarification caused me to have to move it which wasn't a 5 min job.

The championship is fought off the track as hard it is on the track so this distraction took me away from adding performance to our car. Exactly the result our rival wanted.

At another team one of my main jobs was to look in detail at 1000's of spy photo's of competitors cars to keep an eye on everyone. Really interesting job, thoroughly enjoy it, learnt a huge amount F1 cars and 'stuff' I found caused a few rule clarifications to be asked too

I shall look upon Racing Point, or whatever they call themselves next week, a lot less favorably now.

Yeah, I get the ruthless nature of the sport, but that's one of the reasons I don't like it much anymore.

Given that a name change requires unanimous approval, I promise you that as long as Renault is in the sport, their name shall remain "Racing point sport pesa" or whatever ;-) Forever and ever.

Rumor has it an ex- Renault person that recently joined Racing Point grassed, no one likes a grass, secrecy is everything in F1, it's part of a teams competitive advantage and my approach to it will hopefully help keep me in the game

Was once asked when starting at a new team if 'I knew anything sensitive about the team I'd just left that could help my new team'. My answer was a firm 'Yes, but if I told you would you trust me to keep your secrets?'. They said 'No!' I replied 'Well lets not go there then!' End of conversation ;)

Very pleased to find out my new team trusted me enough to allow me to work right up to my last day in the office. Everyone designer before me were escorted off site immediately after they handed their notice in :cool:

By the end of this championship I'll have worked in F1 for 20 years :eek:, I'm booked up for my 21st year and was a whisker away from celebrating this milestone by working for two different F1 teams at the same time. Would have been a very interesting year for me but sadly it won't happen :( as I chose to respect my existing clients right to secrecy

That’s what chaps me about the whole deal, somebody ratted them out and then the team waited until it would do the most damage before springing the protest.

Not cool.

I hope no other team will hire that guy in the future and I will no longer wish to for that team to have any sort of success.

In the past you wished that the rich kid's dad's team had any success at all?!

"I have that Force India, or whatever the f ck it's called..."
-K. Raikonnen, Monaco 2019

Congratulations to the winner , how he made his tires last 60 laps is amazing .

Yawn, the announcers kept promising a four way epic battle at the end....

I honestly think that half of Hamilton's whining is just him trying to bate other team's into risky moves...

Agree 100%. How many races has he won after *****ing about tire strategy? I am sure it is more than he has lost.

F1: 2019 thread
 

My thoughts exactly. He loves to whine even when he has THE best car on the circuit.

What was the penalty to Verstappen for?

Not slowing for the yellow that resulted from Bottas' crash in Q3.

What a drive by Hamilton. To overcome that first lap incident with Crashtappen, and then to make his tires last about 50 laps--and still win with a margin on Vettel--was very impressive.

It was funny, claiming he did not see the yellow flag. OK, that might be possible, but he sure saw a Mercedes stuck into the wall, and knew it was a yellow flag situation. But he pressed on, even after his timed lap was done.

What were his lap times?
Just another parade.

They need to raise the speed limit on pit lane to 100 kph, (or higher) to make it less of a penalty to pit.
That MIGHT encourage actual racing again.

Put a fork in it, F1 is done. And we get to suffer another whole year of this nonsense. They simply cannot race under these current rules, on these tires. We should have seen an epic four way battle for the win - it had better than 20 laps to develop. Instead we see yet another parade to the end, with following cars unable to close the gaps due to contrived aero and tire issues.

So only Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari finished on the same lap, and everyone else was one or even two laps down? Or did Renault manage to stay on the same lap. The rest of the field is just there for filler and someone to pass.

Like most other fans I am real tired of watching economy runs, to save the tires and fuel. I want to see a real race of top speed all the time. The efficiency or economy runs are just silly.

Like most of you I was waiting for the epic battle up front to unfold , sadly it never happened . There were many cars at the front and mid pack that would start closing the gap to a car in front of them but then were told by the team to back off due to tire/brake/engine temp's rising to dangerous levels .

That is NOT the Pinnacle of racing in my opinion , man and machine need to be able to be competitive and push when they have the chance . The current F1 car is soooo sensitive to so many things that it can't be raced as was intended .

I really hope that some/most of the rule changes being discussed for 2021 make a real difference to the racing. When I watch sports car racing either in the US or around the world I see real competition and anyone can win . F1 needs to be similar and I know it's not easy to do .

LOL F1 has changed from a sprint race to an endurance race.
A really, really short endurance race ;)

He has an indicator on his steering wheel. He didn't miss the flag he ignored it.

How many cars did Max bounce off of in this race? I think I counted 6 he was unhinged on the first lap. I honestly thought he was going to take Sir Hamilton out. Then maybe there would be outrage over his driving.

Agree with all above, it is very boring, once in a while a race gets turned sideways and is somewhat interesting. Most all of the races, I DVR and watch X2 and X3.

Every time I really start to like Max he reverts to Crashstappen.

Is it just me, or could Ferrari have had a one-two finish if their pit strategy had mirrored the Mercs? - probably an oversimplification, given LeClerc missed marks and the pit screw up.
But still - how much are those strategists being paid anyhow? Seems the last couple of races, Ferrari has been out-witted and ended up shooting themselves in the foot.

Kudos for network ABC for showing the race without commercials - must have cost them a bundle in lost ad revenue.

Bill K

not a huge HAM fan, but the guy drove from 3rd to the win with a damaged car that affected aero/handling. https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/50204141 You may not like him, but he needs the credit for his abilities

Mothers polish pays for the uninterrupted race. So thank Mothers waxes for the no commercials, not the networks.

Exacatacly.

They need to be able to race at the cars' limits of grip under braking, cornering, and acceleration at every corner on every lap for the entire race. Not at the limits of tires intentionally designed to wear at an artificial rate, not at the limits of the many system's cooling as dictated by following distance, nor at the limits of downforce diminished by clever disruptive aero tricks incorporated into the car in front. Balls to the wall for 70 laps with the only stratergy being "drive as fast as you goddamn can, son".

I remember one of the Ferrari races when Alonzo was in his prime. They did a three or maybe 4 stopper, just chunking on new soft tires and he ran like mad, and beat everyone trying to do a one or two stopper and save tires. Ah the good ol days, when driving at the limit for the entire race was the way to win.

Yep, good ole days back when they had unlimited amount of bridgestones and could fuel as much and as often as they wanted.
I remember schumi pitting unexpectedly and I wondered what the heck they were thinking.
Then he'd lap 4 or 5 seconds faster than the field until it was time to pit again.