Prison reform

[Clint Lando]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

+1

Private Prisons
Judges
Let alone the laws for stupid offenses

You think it's bad what they do to adults. The juvenile system ain't much better.
My brother as a juvenile stole an ipod (remember those), as a lesson the judge sentenced him to 6 months in an adult prison. 2 months later he is dead...

System is broken from the top down..

6 months adult prison just for steal ipod? no

[Jeff Higgins]

The United States has close to, if not the highest incarceration rate in the world. Not just in the "first world", or in the "free world", but in the world.

Interesting that we can so clearly see the corruption and human rights abuses rampant in other countries, yet we are so blind to this one in our own. Everyone bellyaches about Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump - pick your flavor and whine about their "corruption" - yet nary a peep about the ongoing crime against humanity that is our prison system.

[Clint Lando]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The United States has close to, if not the highest incarceration rate in the world. Not just in the "first world", or in the "free world", but in the world.

Interesting that we can so clearly see the corruption and human rights abuses rampant in other countries, yet we are so blind to this one in our own. Everyone bellyaches about Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump - pick your flavor and whine about their "corruption" - yet nary a peep about the ongoing crime against humanity that is our prison system.

best place to live
unless criminal

[gordner]

Originally Posted by Clint Lando

6 months adult prison just for steal ipod? no

I would be willing to bet it is true, there are tons of horror stories out there on draconian sentencing for kids, as well as ridiculously light sentencing for kids and adults.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Guys with 3 years of nothing to do spend 3 years planning how to be better criminals when they get out.

I would guess that this is the case for the vast majority of prisoners. Why bother going straight and working for peanuts when it's so tempting to just go back to ripping people off, dealing drugs, etc. for easy money. Doing a stint in prison is just an accepted part of 'the life'. Every once in a while you'll do some time, hone your skills, make some new connections, then get out and start the cycle all over again. Rehab is a joke...

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Who really runs the prisons? Sure seems like it is the criminals in too many locations.

Prison gangs are a very powerful and intimidating force within the system.

The only answer I have is to keep the prisoners so busy they don't have time for anything else.

This approach works very well for the military, as anyone knows who's been thru basic training. Almost every second of your waking time is controlled...no time for F'ing around and being disruptive.

The education part only works on the willing.

Part of the problem is that there are far too few who are willing. As mentioned in an earlier post, personal responsibility (or the lack thereof) plays a big part in this.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Clint Lando

6 months adult prison just for steal ipod? no

Yes...
His public defender thought he would get probation. Judge was heavy handed that day.

Actually thinking back on it. The judge could have sent him to the main state juvenile detention center. I'm pretty sure the county has to pay for those inmates to go there.
Whatever, the county sure as hell paid out the wrongful death lawsuit...

[monoflo]

Oh yeah and pot is just as criminal as heroin!!!! Unless its legal of course.. The CRJ system is a joke. Rich guys walk.

And I'm not a liberal.

[JavaBrewer]

My wife works in multiple school districts, elementary -> high school, mostly poor Hispanic kids in bad neighborhoods - lots of gang activity. She has witnessed their journey and is heartbroken by it. Bright young smiles early on are replaced with hard faces. Most of these kids have zero chance of rising (education) out of their situation to improve their lives. Many will not graduate high school but will run the streets with their gangs. Others have already given up any dreams of NOT being a laborer by middle school. Babies having babies is common. No family support for educational success. Lots of factors at play for sure but rest assured the school boards/admins don't give a darn either.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

There has been a hue and cry from liberals about the evils of for-profit prisons, but done right, they might make a dent in our crime problem.

Yes and done right, not-for-profit prisons might too. The "done right" part is important. If both were "done right," the not-for-profit prisons would cost less and be more directly under public scrutiny.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The idea of warehousing people for some number of months and then just turning them out into society hoping they will behave is insane - but that's our system.

Agreed. This liberal notices, as you say, warehousing alone does not solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Macroni

I have also hired employees with time served on their application with success. They just want to move on with their lives.

Some do want this. Many more would also join if they learned how to move forward and upward instead of backward and downward. They turned Eddie Murphy into a successful commodities trader in Trading Places.

I appreciate you giving this fellow a chance, glad you (and he) won that bet and good fortunes to both of you.

[Jeff Higgins]

There is a side to this that has not yet been mentioned - one of the functions of "warehousing" criminals is that of protecting the rest of us from them. Taking them off of the streets and locking them up protects society from them, at least while they are incarcerated. Let's not lose sight of that. Yes, rehabilitating them should always be one of the goals, and they should be given every opportunity to take advantage of programs that help them find another way.

At some point, however, we have to accept that some are well and truly lost causes. Repeat offenders that will never be anything more than a burden or even a threat to the rest of society. While on the one hand we do not do enough to rehabilitate those who would like to be, we are also not nearly hard enough on those who clearly have no desire to lead a productive life and contribute to society.

Some states have "three strikes" laws that incarcerate violent felons for life after their third conviction. All that really means, however, is that they get free room, board, and health care for the rest of their useless lives. Why on earth do we continue to do this, continue to support these people? Just euthanize them. All of them. Anyone who has proven themselves to be unreceptive to rehabilitation. Maybe with that sort of an end looming over the horizon, more of them would find the motivation to try something different. And, if they don't, at least they are removed as a burden and a threat to the rest of us.

[Baz]

Should we include prison excursions/field trips as part of our grade school curriculum?

Scare them straight, sorta thing?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Baz

Should we include prison excursions/field trips as part of our grade school curriculum?

Scare them straight, sorta thing?

Like for kids whose parents didn't do their jobs?


My dad taught me many things.
The most important thing me taught me (and my brothers) is that it doesn't matter if you will get in trouble or not, or how much trouble you might get into. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the decision-making process.
We should decide whether or not to do something based on if it is RIGHT or if it is WRONG, not because the consequences might be scary.

This message was reinforced consistently, so much that when my brothers and I compared notes for the old man's eulogy, we all came up with the above as the number one thing we learned from him.
none of the four of us have ever gotten into any trouble beyond a speeding ticket.
I guess we were very fortunate, blessed.
People with ****ty parents might even say we were privileged.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Baz

Should we include prison excursions/field trips as part of our grade school curriculum?

Scare them straight, sorta thing?

The only kids on whom that would work don't need it anyway. The kinds of kids on whom we would like that to work are simply not intimidated by that kind of "punishment".

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Most of these kids have zero chance of rising (education) out of their situation to improve their lives. Many will not graduate high school but will run the streets with their gangs. Babies having babies is common. No family support for educational success.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

...kids whose parents didn't do their jobs

This is where it all starts. Those who are clearly unfit to be parents keep breeding like cockroaches.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Baz

Should we include prison excursions/field trips as part of our grade school curriculum?

Scare them straight, sorta thing?

Well, if that's what it takes to get them living among us as good citizens, yes. As Jeff said, there are some who want to live what we consider a normal life, and there are those who will never be anything but criminals. We currently treat them all the same, and that is costing us.
The word "rehabilitate" doesn't even apply to them. It implies that they were "normal" at one time and went wrong somehow and all we have to do is steer them back onto the right path. J is one who never knew how to live in normal society, and from the way he talks he is far from alone. People like him can't be rehabilitated, they have to be built from the ground up. Some of them want it, some don't, but we aren't helping those who do.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rcooled

This is where it all starts. Those who are clearly unfit to be parents keep breeding like cockroaches.

+1
I asked J about his family once. He had never mentioned them. He has never seen his father, and when he told me the city his mother lives in I asked him what she did there. "She sucks dick." He said it so matter-of-factly I almost choked. It's just a normal part of life for him. Some moms have jobs, some don't, some are prostitutes. Everyone he grew up around was an addict.

[Hugh R]

It needs reform, at least at the State levels. The Fed (almost 55 years ago) used to do a decent job of getting inmates into work that would build some skills,office work, typing, (now keyboarding classes), plumbing, landscaping, painting, even getting two year college degrees. States just warehouse them and make them worse when they get out.

[sammyg2]

I've only ever binge-watched one show and didn't get into it until a couple months ago.
it's called the first 48. It's a show that details the investigation and solving of real murders.
I've watched at least 20 episodes so far, each one detailing the conviction of murderer. So far two of those convicted of murder have been white.

It is amazing to see the culture and attitude towards killing that is demonstrated by the suspects.
No respect for life, little or no conscience, no real differential between right and wrong.
Just remorse for getting caught.
Nothing else. They are victims because they were unlucky enough to get caught.

Last week the Po-PO investigated the murder of a 44 year old grandmother, who was baby-sitting her 4 year old grandchild. She was a grandmother by age 40. Non-believable in my world. She was killed because she was a drug dealer BTW.

Saw a show last night where a guy shot through the front door of a house because some low-life bimbo made off with his $20. Killed a guy who wouldn't open the door, over $20.
He was maybe 20 years old and had a police record.
When handcuffed he asked his cousin to "take care of my sons".


We can give them people money, we can give them BS jobs, we can give them free housing, food stamps, handouts all day long.

won't change anything except give them more excuses to kill one another.

Change the culture, change the way they are raised and taught.
Nothing else will matter.
That has to happen BEFORE they go to the penitentiary.
That has to happen before they become teens, after that it's too late and the best we can do is WAREHOUSE them to keep others safe.

Blaming their deficiencies as human beings on the prison system falls somewhere between naive and dishonest.

[pwd72s]

Good posts by many here. Sammy hit on it. The wealthy have military schools for their problem teens. Hell, it seems to have worked for our President's dad.

What alternative do others have? In far to many cases, the path was set long before these kids enter the system.

Windows of opportunity...some people have none.

[widebody911]

+1 on sammy