All Things Aviation Related

[dar636]

Aircraft certification flight testing for icing is one of the most impressive performance tests which have to be demonstrated to the most extreme condition likely to be encountered. For icing tests the aircraft must exhibit the ability to fly with a full ice load at the most critical time - landing after a lengthy hold with ice building up. When Aviation Partners Boeing developed the Scimitar Winglet STC we ran the tests on the 737-700, -800 and the -900 in Moses Lake WA. These pics are from 2014 and the -900. The shapes on the leading edges are built to the profile ice assumes when building up, walnut shells are used to simulate the rough surface and the profile templates are used to help me inspect and 'conform' the profiles at specific wing/body/leading edge locations for the FAA certification flights. It is impressive that these aircraft can fly (at all). The flaps and leading edges will not be moved during the flight tests.

[KNS]

I don't want this thread to get political but this is a shame (just stumbled across this photo). These were essentially brand new helicopters - if you've ever had the chance to fly a 500 they are the Ferrari of helicopters.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KNS

I don't want this thread to get political but this is a shame (just stumbled across this photo). These were essentially brand new helicopters - if you've ever had the chance to fly a 500 they are the Ferrari of helicopters

I think we’ll be good

I flew 500s with the Maryland National Guard for an hour and then later maintenance check flights as a sand bag during PG1

You are correct: Like wearing a helo.

[svandamme]

And they just looke cool no matter what.
Hell, Magnum PI's opening Intro wouldn't be half it was without the 500, the other half being the Ferrari, and another half the 1911


Seahawk, correct me if i'm wrong, they probably are a bit temperamental to fly for novices?
so let's hope the Taliban's wanna be pilots give it a good arm of collective at their first try and that'll be one less problem that needs sorting out.. No?

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I flew 500s with the Maryland National Guard for an hour and then later maintenance check flights as a sand bag during PG1

You are correct: Like wearing a helo.

I only have a few hours in them but one of my flights was at the factory and I got do the full range of maneuvers with full down autos including full downs following simulated engine failure on take off - those were fun!

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Seahawk, correct me if i'm wrong, they probably are a bit temperamental to fly for novices?

The Army guys are better equipped to know. I had had enough time in small helos, the Navy trained in Bell Jet Rangers in those days, to know to be gentle on the sticks!

[Seahawk]

BTW, those icing photos are great! I can only imagine the math that drove the placement of the blankets and deflectors/

[KNS]

Originally Posted by svandamme

And they just looke cool no matter what.
Hell, Magnum PI's opening Intro wouldn't be half it was without the 500, the other half being the Ferrari, and another half the 1911


Seahawk, correct me if i'm wrong, they probably are a bit temperamental to fly for novices?
so let's hope the Taliban's wanna be pilots give it a good arm of collective at their first try and that'll be one less problem that needs sorting out.. No?

Hughes Helicopter sales actually went up while that show aired.

They are no more difficult to fly than other helicopters, because of the direct feed back of the flight controls (part of what makes them so nice to fly) they are easier in some regards.

[Adrian Thompson]

What am I missing, how could a helicopter be political?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KNS

I only have a few hours in them but one of my flights was at the factory and I got do the full range of maneuvers with full down autos including full downs following simulated engine failure on take off - those were fun!

A good friend of mine retired from the Navy and became a test pilot at the Mesa facility.

Great place!

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by KNS

Hughes Helicopter sales actually went up while that show aired.

Well I can only imagine so
I know I'de have that on my short list if I ever won the euromillions lottery..

unlikely to happen since I don't play

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

A good friend of mine retired from the Navy and became a test pilot at the Mesa facility.

Great place!

What was his name, maybe I met him..? I was there in 2018.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KNS

What was his name, maybe I met him..? I was there in 2018.

PM sent.

It would be great if you met him.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

A good friend of mine retired from the Navy and became a test pilot at the Mesa facility.

Great place!

Two friends of mine worked at the Mesa location in flight test. Still know one guy there who is active in flight test. Its a pretty small world in flight test of any sort. His initials are LA and he is married to a friend of mine.

[kach22i]

Some interesting interior seating/sleeping mock-up ideas being explored for a flying wing (Vee).

About the 13:00 mark......................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZJzD7bhE_Y

[svandamme]

the Dutch have been throwing up some fancy ideas bout air travel for a couple of years. But tho they all look cool, I doubt they are very feasible or likely to get adopted.

one was the circle airport that always had a perfect headwind..
The endless runway
https://www.nlr.org/news/the-endless-runway/

Very good in theory, but in practice you can't get that adopted because well airports are where they are, and they are typically already space and noise abation constrained. Especially not in a densely populated country like Holland.
+ much change in training/procedures required.

Flying V , again, very cool in theory.. but it requires a huge change in infrastructure and well, airpots are space constrained.
And engines on top of the plane mean they are difficult to service, so that won't work either unless every airport builds infrastructure to yank off engines from the top instead of just taking em off a plane where it stands. eg drive the tools to the plane.
So yeah cool, but most likely it'll get no further then jerking off ideas , but they'll never achieve actual market penetration with it.

[Seahawk]

vvv Excellent summation. There have been a few threads about the demise of the A380 here as well as a ton of articles on the interwebs.

The Vee is s great concept but I have been told that passengers want a window...don't have to sit by one, they just want to see one. That and airport infrastructure is going to be an issue unless the fuel saving/passenger per mile numbers mean enough to spur investment.

We designed and made a blended wing UAS for the commercial market but it never sold well as a beta unit so we shelved it.

Thanks for the video. I really enjoyed the peek inside the Vee.

Originally Posted by svandamme

the Dutch have been throwing up some fancy ideas bout air travel for a couple of years. But tho they all look cool, I doubt they are very feasible or likely to get adopted.

one was the circle airport that always had a perfect headwind..
The endless runway
https://www.nlr.org/news/the-endless-runway/

Very good in theory, but in practice you can't get that adopted because well airports are where they are, and they are typically already space and noise abation constrained. Especially not in a densely populated country like Holland.
+ much change in training/procedures required.

Flying V , again, very cool in theory.. but it requires a huge change in infrastructure and well, airpots are space constrained.
And engines on top of the plane mean they are difficult to service, so that won't work either unless every airport builds infrastructure to yank off engines from the top instead of just taking em off a plane where it stands. eg drive the tools to the plane.
So yeah cool, but most likely it'll get no further then jerking off ideas , but they'll never achieve actual market penetration with it.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

... I have been told that passengers want a window...don't have to sit by one, they just want to see one.

Passengers want to sit in the center of the airplane.
The farther from the centerline, the more dramatic the elevator ride.
In a left turn, those on the left side are going to have their seat drop out from under them, while those on the right are being uncomfortably pushed up.

Flight attendants, get those sic-sacs ready!

[KNS]

If blended wing/flying wing "takes off" (Airbus has some designs in the works) it will most likely be with freighters. All the issues with passengers - embarking/disembarking, inflight - will not be a concern.

The demand for new freighters and cargo conversions has skyrocketed since COVID.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by KNS

If blended wing/flying wing "takes off" (Airbus has some designs in the works) it will most likely be with freighters. All the issues with passengers - embarking/disembarking, inflight - will not be a concern.

The demand for new freighters and cargo conversions has skyrocketed since COVID.

But center of mass becomes an even bigger issue with freight.
rollrate reduces dramatically when you load up weight off the center line..
And rollrate is quite important at mittigating crosswinds at landing.

furthermore, the engine maintenance/replacement still poses a massive problem.

I doubt it makes for a viable shift in design for just 1 part of the market.
Now a plane is designed and can do both.
Seasonal change in requirements (more vacationers in summer ) well you just install seats and you have a commercial people plane.. sudden increase in package needs. put seats back in.

Same for pilots.. new pilots will probably find it easier to get their hours in on freighters , they grind their hours on freight, then move up to people flying..
Not really going to happen if they use completely different designs. it's a hindrance.

Having 2 completely different designs just kills off any hopes of flexible use.. And that's what makes a plane design successfull and economical