All Things Aviation Related

[VenezianBlau 87]

Originally Posted by javadog

I think the P-63 was following a couple other planes that were turning inside of the B-17, a few hundred feet to it’s left side, and the P-63 was a little wide in its turn. I think the P 63 pilot completely lost sight of the B-17.
Said to be five lost aboard the B-17 and one in the P-63.

Sad to lose fellow enthusiasts and all that history. RE what you said above...odd that the P63 pilot was having to make such a hard left turn and maybe losing altitude in trade. Was really out of shape as I think they have to do flybys parallel to the field. Probably not meant to be a simulated attack on B17.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by bugstrider

Tragic, prayers to all of the families involved.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ck4GQ9GD4eV/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh Lord. I'm guessing no one suffered. RIP.

[billybek]

That was horrible to watch.

[svandamme]

saw more footage, it happened right at the end of the runway, they crashed in front of all spectators.
"no paying customers" phew. but still terrible for those flying, they never had time realize what happened.

First video I saw was from a far, i thought a loop
but this is flat bend, loosing altitude..
It does not look like hes pulling in the bend just before impact.. but tapering off and loosing altitude.. just like in that Air Race crash

At the speed he was going, such a sharp turn, pilot might have blacked out.
WW2 warbirds were capable of blacking out their pilots, it happened then as well.
US was actually first to implement G suits , during WW2

but to then also take out the B17 along with it.. terrible freak accident ..

[Captain Ahab Jr]

What a terrible accident, loss of live and important aviation history

Can't understand why it's being considered a freak accident

Flying old planes in close formation that fly at different levels of speed/ maneuverability was an accident waiting to happen

[svandamme]

I doubt they were supposed to be on same altitudes at all.
pretty sure the flight plan and airshow rules prohibit that, they fly their own patterns with plenty of seperation.. And all they have to do in case of trouble, is steer out of the pattern.. all that is plenty briefed..

So my guess, the P63 pilot got incapacitated, while in his bend, at 80 something degrees, that means loosing altitude..

The freak part is that he didn't just go down on his own, imagine the odds that he is incapacitated and in that open sky , just happens to cross the B17's tail? second sooner or later and he would have missed it ..
I mean that is just incredible bad luck for the B17 crew.. it could easily have gone the other way of near miss and 'phew we got incredible lucky there".. but it didn't.. thats the freak part.

I'm sure airshow rules will become stricter from now on, I do suspect the show part resulted in too dynamic a flight for the sort of display they were doing (many planes)

[javadog]

From a discussion elsewhere:



P-63 flight path:

[BReif61]

This picture of the crash was posted on Reddit last night. I’m linking it, not posting it.

It’s rough. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/yth2gp/wingsover_dallas_ww2_airshow_disaster_today_111222/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[javadog]

I really don’t think the pilot of the fighter was incapacitated, I think he lost situational awareness, ran wide in his turn and lost sight of the bomber, as he attempted to follow the two fighters in front of him. We may know, eventually.

A truly sad occurrence, for all affected.

[svandamme]

Ide hate to be the airboss for that airshow.

Or any such show really.

[Skytrooper]

I agree with Javadog's assessment as stated in post #1969.

It is a tragic occurrence. The Airboss should never have allowed them at co-alt. That is where the changes will occur methinks.

[javadog]

I don’t know why you wouldn’t want just one plane flying by the crowd at a time, with two groups flying past the field at the same time, you don’t get to see and hear each individual plane as well.

The guy in the P-63 was going 40 or 50 knots faster than everybody else, it makes you wonder if he was in a hurry to catch up with the 2 P-51s ahead of him. Maybe he felt like he had gotten out of position, or was never in the correct position and was trying to make up for it.

Looking at his flight track, that’s not how I would arrange a pattern for getting a couple groups of airplanes into the air and sequenced. There’s obviously more to it than I know about, but that just looks peculiar as hell.

Such a shame.

[VenezianBlau 87]

^^^I wonder if the P63 pilot's hard turn left lost the higher altitude he shared with the preceding fighters.

[edgemar]

at the Chino airshow, the flybys are much more controlled... either one at a time or formation flights going by.

[javadog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sloan_86333/status/1591833218617323520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1591833218617323520%7Ctwgr% 5E444e46d0161d20b2406f7e386c0944173e2642e4%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Faccidents-close-calls%2F649802-dallas-air-show-crash.html

[javadog]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4681586

[javadog]

That olive drab B-17 would have been difficult to see from a higher altitude, as it would’ve blended in with the ground coloration. The P-63 is noted for having poor visibility from the cockpit, which would be worse at the bank angle where he was in. The pilot probably didn’t see the B-17 until a fraction of a second before he hit it.

[A930Rocket]

I don’t know how accurate this is, but it does not look like the small plane was turning prior to hitting the B-17.

https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1591538478378254336/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwte rm%5E1591538478378254336%7Ctwgr%5Eee5aaf83dc7b6626 bfc4f58e4bc8a4d5be196ddf%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fb-17-in-horrific-mid-air-collision-at-dallas-airshow

[flatbutt]

I'm no pilot but this vid (1975) seems to show the P63 would have had a good view of the B17 but had no time to react. Such a shame.

[svandamme]

Well that's the thing, if the P63 is banked, but not pulling up (from his perspective)
the B17 would be coming up from below him
it doesn't matter what visibility the cockpit has , you can't look through the engine. (or nose in case of P63, engine is behind pilot)

why would a fighter plane be banked unless he's going to pull??
Why didn't he pull?? had he done that, he would have come up in front or next to the B17.