Day Sailors?

[SCadaddle]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Greg Lepore gives good advice if you are going to sail in the same water. In my racing days we did exactly that. Boats were stored on trailers fully rigged.

If you want a trailerable day-sailer that you can take to different waters easily look into a MacGrgor 26. It fits all your criteria. Headroom, swing keel, trailerable on a low trailer, rigged in 15 minutes.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjHz9mVm7HkAhVyzlkKHTrLD-UQFjAAegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fasa.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F07%2F24% 2Fcruising-boat-spotlight-macgregor-26m%2F&usg=AOvVaw0bRCBc0YCG7Bgjco8hORc0

Thanks for the link to the article. I considered a Macgregor until the lady friends Dad weighed in.....I think he was the one mentioned in the article. Just comes across to me as a regular "family boat" that just happens to have sails for when you want to try sailing it....which is pretty much what the article stated. I've considered the "water ballast" boats as well, well, at least to realize that even though they might be light on the trailer to haul with a smaller vehicle, you've still got to haul it OUT of the water with a full ballast so you can drain it. A novel idea but in the end still going to require quite the vehicle to get it out of the water on the trailer.

The "Atomic 4" on the C&C 30....I agree, that is less desirable than a diesel engine when it comes to safety, I asked the owner about that and he turned on the large blower before attempting to crank the engine. I'll sit down and write out a list of the pros and cons on the C&C 30 see where I stand on paper instead of my head.

Next boat on my list to go look at is a Freedom 21. I've read up on it and am intrigued by the free standing carbon fiber mast, however, that mast is prone to damage that can be extremely expensive to repair.

As for the lady friend, "just find a Catalina 25 with a swing keel and a trailer and be done with it!"

Ahh, don't you like the old days of video tape? This is quite the "Demo" video of the Freedom 21, although sadly it gets rather shall we say "politically incorrect" at the 4:20 mark.

[VincentVega]

x10

I've had just as much fun sailing a cape dory typhoon or Herreshoff 12 1/2 as a j/92, 105 or whatever. c&c 30 is a nice boat but not what I would call a daysailer. So many fewer systems, so much more stuff to worry about. I'm thinking about a 35, because I want to race in the ocean and/or go the the islands. Not the boat to putter around in.

If you are really cutting your chops and figuring out if you want to do this get a saling dinghy. Takes up minimal space, rig in minutes, learn a ton and use it as a tender for the big boat if/when you move up.

I love sailing small boats.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Hmmm. I’m not a fan of the MacGregor, but to each, their own.

A buddy in Jax had a 34' years ago...beamy and lots of room...not a fan either. My other bud sold the old 30' Morgan we'd all enjoyed for a couple of decades..new diesel (ins. replaced the gas....hell naw ), sails, rigging, needed nada....around 7k ....helluva boat & deal...well set up fer racing..but old.

$$$ pits

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

Thanks for the link to the article. I considered a Macgregor until the lady friends Dad weighed in.....I think he was the one mentioned in the article. Just comes across to me as a regular "family boat" that just happens to have sails for when you want to try sailing it....which is pretty much what the article stated. I've considered the "water ballast" boats as well, well, at least to realize that even though they might be light on the trailer to haul with a smaller vehicle, you've still got to haul it OUT of the water with a full ballast so you can drain it. A novel idea but in the end still going to require quite the vehicle to get it out of the water on the trailer.

The "Atomic 4" on the C&C 30....I agree, that is less desirable than a diesel engine when it comes to safety, I asked the owner about that and he turned on the large blower before attempting to crank the engine. I'll sit down and write out a list of the pros and cons on the C&C 30 see where I stand on paper instead of my head.

Next boat on my list to go look at is a Freedom 21. I've read up on it and am intrigued by the free standing carbon fiber mast, however, that mast is prone to damage that can be extremely expensive to repair.

As for the lady friend, "just find a Catalina 25 with a swing keel and a trailer and be done with it!"

Ahh, don't you like the old days of video tape? This is quite the "Demo" video of the Freedom 21, although sadly it gets rather shall we say "politically incorrect" at the 4:20 mark.

I would be in your lady friends dads camp. No "real" sailor would consider the Mac26. But based on your OP it fit the bill. You didn't care about performance, you were looking for a reasonably roomy cabin due to your size and ease of trailing. The Mac26 Does a little bit of everything and none of it very well but you can get on the water and sail, overnight, get out of the weather, crank up the power and get home and launch and haul on a ramp.

The biggest hassles with any sailboat being trailered is unstepping/stepping the mast and getting the boat in and out of the water due to draft. Most swing keel boats in the size range you are looking at are probably going to need to be lifted in and out of the water due to their draft as there is going to be a small semi keel or the keel doesn't fully retract into the hull. You might be able to get an O'Day 19 down a ramp but few others.

Trailering a sailboat is a hassle no matter how you look at it. So ignore the salesman's statement if you are going to trailer a sailboat.

[tevake]

Sailing clubs often have some rental boats. This would give the chance to try different boats to see what you like. And the chance to travel and do some sailing in a variety of locations.

ASA certification will get you trained in the basics of sailing and boating safety, And qualify you to rent those club boats.

There so many trailer sailboats in the 20' to 27' range to chose from. In the seventies and early eighties boats were generally pretty stoutly built. Then from the nineties forward production boats generally got lighter and more cheaply rigged.

A friend has an Oday Mariner 20. Nice shallow draft centerboard boat with cuddly cabin and large cockpit.


It's easy to rig, fun to sail in sheltered waters, can tow with most mid sized cars.
Weighs around 1,500 lbs.

I've been looking at trailer sailers for a while to use here in the often shallow waters in the southeast. I wanted a bit more cabin space for possible overnighting. Also wanted a bit more open water Capability.

I ended up finding Morgan 22. It's a compromise design with a shallow ballasted mini keel with center board in the mini keel. About 2' draft board up. And a bit wider hull than the Oday. At 2,500 lbs still trailers easly with a mid sized truck. Not too bad to rig. More cabin space with veeberth, quarter berth, and dinette for two.
Still has a good sized cockpit.





For more comfort and performance a 25/27' fixed keel boat would be best. Still trailerable from deep ramps, take 2 or three people to rig. Weigh around 5,000 lbs
Will stand tall on the trailer. Tow with mid sized to full sized truck.

Think Catalina 25', J24 , vega 27 etc.

My 25' full keeled older wooden boat was very capible in open waters of Hawaii where I sailed inter island often. But with 4.5' draft was a bear on a trailer.



The more exposure you can get to different boats will help in finding the best fit for your needs.
So much fun ahead.

Cheers Richard

[nota]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

NO real sailors lol at those beasts
a motor boat with a mast that sails very very poorly

C&C is a good boat but old with likely very old sails
plan on an other 5k for new basic sails [ main and jib] in dacron
the better newer plastic sails 3di/3dl style are far more money
as are the extra sails many have

then there is general maintenance, storage,

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by tevake

Sailing clubs often have some rental boats. This would give the chance to try different boats to see what you like. And the chance to travel and do some sailing in a variety of locations.

ASA certification will get you trained in the basics of sailing and boating safety, And qualify you to rent those club boats.

There so many trailer sailboats in the 20' to 27' range to chose from. In the seventies and early eighties boats were generally pretty stoutly built. Then from the nineties forward production boats generally got lighter and more cheaply rigged.

Originally Posted by VincentVega

If you are really cutting your chops and figuring out if you want to do this get a saling dinghy. Takes up minimal space, rig in minutes, learn a ton and use it as a tender for the big boat if/when you move up.

I love sailing small boats.

Great points! IMO, it’s easier to move up to a big boat from a smaller one, as there’s usually a bigger marker for the smaller, less expensive boats. And, you’ll develop the experience thatl’ll help you choose the right bigger boat for you. Good hunting!

[Sunroof]

The Catalina 22 is the most popular, mass produced pocket cruiser on the planet! They must have produced over 11,000 hulls. The Catalina 22 did not change much over the years since they were first introduced back in the early 70's. The great thing about the 22 is the various features that make them so versatile. They come with a retractable swing keel for easy launching, trailering and beaching while providing stability under sail. If you were not going to trailer the boat you can get the fixed keel or winged keel models. The 22 comes with a "pop top" which allows for the roof or top of the cabin to rise and add headroom, more cabin space and visibility. Its like a pop top camper. The 22 is outboard engine powered so you have many options on horsepower. The cockpits are large (bench seating can actually seat 6 adults, but tiller steering makes for more shifting crew around when tacking). The sloop rigging is the main and jib; however, you can get a roller furling jib, carry a good inventory of sails from a small jib, 110, 120, 150 genoa to a spinnaker. The interiors feature a small galley, potta potti, large v-berth, quarter birth for extended weekends and beyond. The Catalina 22 are bargains! Easily re-sellable, strong and a great starter boat. Do some research and you will see that their must be dozens for sale in the southeast. Good luck

Bob
Catalina 30 "Breezin II"
Lake Lanier, GA

[nota]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

There is nothing quite so rewarding as a wood boat, the smell, the sound of the water, the no sweating inside.

Carvel, lapstrake, steam bents, sawn?
Whereas plastic is soulless.
JMO

plywood esp west system epoxy saturated wood is far better for long life
the hull is a single piece of plywood layers sealed in epoxy
then screwed together bits of wood old style construction
far stronger and less maintenance also
yes wood boats are pretty
and SOMEDAY will be valued classic's

but west system epoxy / plywood is state of the art wood today
and there are a fair number of 80's and later boats
esp tri's and cats or racers over 30ft

[Seahawk]

I am not a sailor, although I have spent a lot of time on sailboats from 40 footers to day sailors. I have sailed all over the Bay Area (one of my Cousins was a very, very committed sailor ((we called him Jim de Leon just to get a rise)), Charleston, Pensacola, etc. I roomed with three All American sailors from the Naval Academy at one time and they taught me how to really sail.

I have owned a Prindle 18 (for years) and provided launch service on my boat ramp to a number of small day sailors.

But I am not, definitively not, a sailor. Why?

Because unless the winds are right and the water is right, sailing bores me to the point of Waterborne Seppuku.

That and sailors are the most prickly, know it all's this or any other sport has produced, with the exception of Horsewomen: bad company and I can't deny.

Here in the Potomac River and Chesapeake there is a race called the Governors Cup. I have been asked to crew a few times and refused. RACING sailboat Mustafa's make the average sailboat D-Bag appear docile and mute. It is that bad.

So, to the OP, you are too big for a day sailor with your experience level. The advice to get one was excellent but get a Cat instead...at your size and weight you'll need every bit of 18 ft.

Learn to sail, spend time on the water and be happy. Buy everything, and I mean everything except safety equipment, used. Pennies on the dollar.

Then, if you are still committed to the insanity, get a used MacGregor: None of the people you want to ENJOY sailing with you will care that the boat makes really cool sailors cringe even though the experts have probably never stepped foot on one.

Like they have any clue the real differences between a Morgan and a Mac.

Your friends, who again, just want to have a pleasant day on the water, will enjoy motoring back to the harbor at 20kts in August in Mississippi after the wind dies while the Dennis Connor wannabe's are sweating their asses off. The other cool thing about a Mac - maybe you just want to take Mom and Dad out for a sunset cruise without rigging sails. You can.

After that trial, then get serious about wood and the rest. Ease into this and ignore the purists...they are all insane.

Trust me on this. The last time I sailed was the day that the Navy Captain buddy of mine moved away with his Mac.

I loved that boat. If I ever get another boat of any kind, here in Maryland, it will be a Mac.

[VincentVega]

^ ha

its all about perspective. I cant think of many worse ways to spend a day than hearing a motor droning on and on. Just about any reasonable sailboat with a motor will get you home at 5-6knts. Just lookout for the bozo power boaters flying around everywhere w/o an interest in the rules of the road, common sense or respect.

Anytime you want a seat on the boat we race every wed night. But, we do drink beer. Especially when the wind dies.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

^ ha.

I was just having fun.

I will take you up on your offer.

Please give my best to your Dad.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

^ ha

its all about perspective. I cant think of many worse ways to spend a day than hearing a motor droning on and on. Just about any reasonable sailboat with a motor will get you home at 5-6knts. Just lookout for the bozo power boaters flying around everywhere w/o an interest in the rules of the road, common sense or respect.

Anytime you want a seat on the boat we race every wed night. But, we do drink beer. Especially when the wind dies.

Which is all the damn time!

[Jim Richards]

It’s fun racing when the wind speed < current.

[tevake]

It is sailing in those marginal conditions that really makes you appreciate the fine points of hull design and sail shape. There is real satisfaction in learning to keep the boat moving well regardless of conditions and being able to maneuver into and out of tight spots under sail. That's where the art of sailing comes in.

If you plan to just motor in, any time the conditions are less than ideal, just about any comfortable boat with a strong motor will do.

My sailing preference evolved toward offshore multihull sailing for many years, now shallow draft and easy rigging and towing to be able to travel to new areas, and keep it at home when not using it, Are important qualities in a GOOD SAILING BOAT are the priorities.
Horses for courses.

Cheers Richard

Haha, Hearing about prickly sailors on this forum cracks me up.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by tevake

Haha, Hearing about prickly sailors on this forum cracks me up.

Hahaha!

As to your horses for courses comment...+1000! My boat choices have been all over the map. In order: Laser, Hunter 28.5, J/22, Albacore, Beneteau First 265 (current boat), and a Sabot (like an Opti) that I have propped against the fence, waiting for me to renovate it. The Sabot will be for puttering single-handed in and around the harbor when I want to sail and crew isn’t available. Now if I won the lottery, I’d probably want to buy a 40-50 ft catamaran and go cruising.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

I have done both both, owned a swing keeled 24 ft Shock Santana with a trailer.
Also been in a sailing club with J-22 deep keeled race boats.

The club and the fast boat is much better.

Only one rule on a sailboat,
Tops are optional

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Seahawk-Transparently you have not ever "ghosted along" enjoying the evening.
Or get up in the early krning mist with the french press and the smell of salt and hot coffee.

Sailing along, Watching the other boats fall behind as you know your boat can outpoint them as you stair-step it up..
It is not about getting there,-it is how you got there.

Of course I have...I have sailed quite a bit. Don't tell me what you think I know, Sparky, I have been all over the world on the water. Ever sail for three days on a Dhow?

The OP asked a question. Is there a person here that thinks, with the OP's experience and size (a factor) that he should BUY A BOAT now?

Sailing Clubs, rentals, pay for instructions? Yes. Buy?

No. Emphatically no. I am sure T finds this humorous.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Sparky? LOl

I was explaining there is a lot more to it than just getting there!
The romance is in the everything! The creaking sound from the rigging and the chainplates straining.
Or the luff from waiting for the kitty paws to turn to something more invigorating..
Me a Sparky?.
LOl

We all get it. For the love of God I KNOW! Is there a element on earth less dense than you? I have a lot of time on the water.

I can have the creaking sails and rigging sounds and tell tails and luff and some sailor telling me how f'ing cool it all is just before I blow my brains out.

Sailing is hard, getting there isn't a Jimmy Buffet song.

Do me a a favor: Do your recommend the OP buy a boat? Simple question.

That has been my point all along.

[KFC911]

LOL....if ya have to leave beer behind....to lighten the load...in order to win....you lose.

That is serious sailin' advice

Racin'...nope...not fer me...
.
'cept Wed night beer can races.....

.....don't do fishin' tournaments either...same reason...YMMV.