EV article, scary

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I figured someone HAD to be making an adapter. It is just electricity, and that can easily be converted.

https://insideevs.com/news/336319/ev-charging-adapter-wars-which-side-are-you-on/

I suspect like Betamax vs VHS eventually we will have an single standard country wide. In the meantime charging adapters can't be too hard to make. I will not need one for many years, but any obvious market like an adapter will find a vendor pretty quick.

It would be like having a car that can only fill up at Conoco stations and nowhere else.

A non Tesla vehicle cannot charge at a Tesla station even with an adapter.

[Mahler9th]

But wait, there is more...

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/18/singapore-ban-gasoline-diesel-2040/

Existential or perceived existential threats...

Disruption

Tech storm

opportunity abounds

[MysticLlama]

Originally Posted by island911

So the charger port... is that IP that Tesla doesn't let others play with? -- I mean I hear stories of Musk giving away patents (not because they are worthless, but because he's so dreamy)

So what's the deal with the Tesla proprietary charger IP?

I haven't read anything about the charger profile itself, interesting question.

The way I understand some of the other bits of the story is that the connector / use of the supercharger network was offered to a couple other manufacturers, but they asked for Tesla to modify it certain ways and were then declined with a take it or leave it.

No idea what that was, etc.

Also, there was something around using some of the other standards that were issues at the time for billing or this and that, and up until a couple years ago, Tesla had unlimited supercharging. They just recently sorted out billing, so maybe avoiding all that stuff was an expediency decision.

The J1772 adapter is cheap, and one of the others is mid-priced, but the CCS I think is several hundred dollars. So there may also be some syncing or id logic that needs to be included and translated also. Not quite as easy as wall plugs.

[RWebb]

there is a move to world create std.s for charging - the engineers are arguing about it as we speak

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I figured someone HAD to be making an adapter. It is just electricity, and that can easily be converted.

The adapter would have to be pretty sophisticated, as the plug-in is a com port as well as a power port. I think initially Tesla made charging free, so naturally the power supply had to know it was connected to a Tesla. Now I think you get 1000 miles a year (or month?) free to Tesla owners. The power cord needs to know what it is plugged into for billing purposes if nothing else.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by RWebb

there is a move to world create std.s for charging - the engineers are arguing about it as we speak

I think most of the arguing is about how much information the power supply sucks out of the car. The charger is in the car, so calling anything hanging on a wall a charger is a misnomer. The thing you plug in is a power supply and a communication link. The power part is pretty simple. It's the communication - driver's privacy and billing that are the stumbling blocks AFAIK.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The adapter would have to be pretty sophisticated, as the plug-in is a com port as well as a power port. I think initially Tesla made charging free, so naturally the power supply had to know it was connected to a Tesla. Now I think you get 1000 miles a year (or month?) free to Tesla owners. The power cord needs to know what it is plugged into for billing purposes if nothing else.

For Model 3 (and upcoming Y) owners, you only get free mileage for referring another buyer and only once they take delivery. I referred a friend and it’s taking me forever to get through the free 2000 miles since most charging is done at my home.

I believe S and X still have free charging but Elon has already stated that isn’t a sustainable business model.

The car and the app are all tied into a credit card so you just pull up to the charger and press the button to open the charging port, put it in, then walk away and do whatever. It’s a bit big brother-ish as Tesla basically can monitor your every move but I guess it’s not terribly different than most luxury cars. Hell, my wife’s Subaru had some fault code and the dealership emailed and called her within the hour to drop in for service.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I think most of the arguing is about how much information the power supply sucks out of the car. The charger is in the car, so calling anything hanging on a wall a charger is a misnomer. The thing you plug in is a power supply and a communication link. The power part is pretty simple. It's the communication - driver's privacy and billing that are the stumbling blocks AFAIK.

Correct

AC delivered to the car and the onboard charger converts it to DC

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

there is a move to world create std.s for charging - the engineers are arguing about it as we speak

S-T-D's? Oh wait, standards.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I think most of the arguing is about how much information the power supply sucks out of the car. The charger is in the car, so calling anything hanging on a wall a charger is a misnomer. The thing you plug in is a power supply and a communication link. The power part is pretty simple. It's the communication - driver's privacy and billing that are the stumbling blocks AFAIK.

The car is constantly connected to the internet via LTE. The car and Tesla know everything about your driving habits, right down to how frequently you keep or don’t keep your hands on the wheel.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

S-T-D's? Oh wait, standards.

what have you been doing to those wall "chargers"????!!!!

[island911]

Bringing SaaS to our transportation... Yikes! No thanks.

Proprietary charging...

I'm starting to see why Tesla has been selling cars at a loss for so long.

They force owners to buy power from only them. (just declare that 3rd party chargers are too risky) Use software to enforce.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by island911

Bringing SaaS to our transportation... Yikes! No thanks.

Proprietary charging...

I'm starting to see why Tesla has been selling cars at a loss for so long.

They force owners to buy power from only them. (just declare that 3rd party chargers are too risky) Use software to enforce.

Tesla owners can buy power from non Tesla chargers at the same price a non Tesla owner pays. Tesla supplies adapters with each car. Non Tesla autos can't use a Tesla charger at any price. They could hook up to Tesla chargers but the charger won't allow them to "fill up".

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by island911

Bringing SaaS to our transportation... Yikes! No thanks.

Proprietary charging...

I'm starting to see why Tesla has been selling cars at a loss for so long.

They force owners to buy power from only them. (just declare that 3rd party chargers are too risky) Use software to enforce.

I can and have charged at all the major third party providers with the included adapter. 98% of my charging is simply done at my house.

[daepp]

Nearly 2 billion internal combustion expected to be produced over the next 20 years - I wouldn't be worried...

[daepp]

Very good explanation why you shouldn't be worried!

[pmax]

In case no one noticed.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/4/21164513/gm-ev-platform-architecture-battery-ultium-tesla

GM altered the chemistry of its battery cells, in a move that’s distinct from most EV batteries in production today. The majority of batteries are made with NCM — nickel, cobalt, and magnesium. The Ultium batteries will add aluminum — so NCMA — and reduce the cobalt content by 70 percent. GM has also reduced by about 80 percent the amount of wiring from the EV architecture currently used in its Chevy Bolt vehicles. The hope is that this will drive battery cell costs below the $100/kWh level and allow GM to get more bang for its buck as it scales up its EV production capabilities.
"an estimated 400 miles of range"

Ultium-powered EVs are designed for Level 2 and DC fast charging, GM says. Most will have 400-volt battery packs and up to 200kW fast-charging capability while the company’s truck platform will have 800-volt battery packs and 350 kW fast-charging capability. GM says it wants to address the two main pain points of EV ownership: cost and charging time.

[Sooner or later]

I read an article last week about GM "Firing a shot across Tesla's bow". A lot of GM EV coming out the next year. It mentioned the battery.

[Por_sha911]

GM is infamous for testing unproven design on the public. I hope this battery change isn't the latest in their rush to market products that aren't right. If they did score on a good idea, everyone will jump on it soon.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

GM is infamous for testing unproven design on the public.

Um, what do you think that Tesla has been doing for 12 years?