It’s why the competition for the very top schools is so fierce. The degrees are worth substantially more.

^ This is true !

I disagree completely with Musk. University is what you make of it. If you're a total idiot, then it's a total waste of time.

The best trained people are MOSTLY self taught in any field. If you were a stupid**** in college, then you'll be a stupid ***** your whole life.

"Don't let schooling interfere with your education" - Mark Twain

Elon likes to blather on... :rolleyes:

The fact is he surrounds himself with people who have graduated from College!

I don't agree with Elon on most things, but do agree with him on this.

College is not about learning. It's about learning how to learn and live independently managing responsibilities.

Most of us don't use much of anything we learned in college factually, but we do use the learning and problem solving techniques we picked up along the way.

Nowdays though the cost is hard to justify for what is basically "adult high school".

A bunch of annoying homework assignments really resonates with me . I just could not do it anymore . The day I walked felt like the first day of the rest of my life .
Some of us are just not wired to be students . My heart was never in it

Are you kidding? The recent grads are having to take "Adulting" classes to figure out how to live independently.

For the non-technical people, there is a lot of partying. For the technical people, there is a smattering of partying and a whole lotta studying and hard work. And I know a few "business" types who studied their butts off and went on to top level careers.

I am studying to become a doctor online for free. You can come to my clinic when I'm done.

My oldest brother thought that in the mid-60's and his GPA fell below average and subsequently was drafted. He served our country in the Navy during Vietnam era and lived to tell about it. Much later in his life, went back to college, specifically VPI and graduated with a degree in Business.

Then went on to have a very sub-par professional life selling insurance until he retired. Fortunately his wife did very well and her retirement / money is what they're living (well) on.

I applaud him for going back, finishing but at the same time frustrated with him that he seemed to never use his learnin' to better himself anymore than what he did.

This is great news. I'll have my daughter, who's studying cognitive science and computer science at UC Davis so she can work in artificial intelligence, to drop out of college and head right down to Silicon Valley to get that fancy, high-paying job she's been planning on. I'll save a ton of money.

People have natural talents, like focus or drive.

Then there are skills that need to be learned, be they physical or mental.

Back in the day, a person did an full up apprenticeship to become a 'craftsman'.

The digital age has kind of reduced that need. Take machining. I am 'self taught' and can do an ok job on simple stuff on the mill and lathe. It makes designing chemistry equipment using new sensor types much faster and easier, but I am a far cry from a classically trained machinist.

My PhD in p-chem has done well by me, but I do not think I would be where I am w/o the 'nuts n bolts' background.

The interesting problems are now at interfaces between subjects.

Book learning by itself is usually not productive. In grad school, those who could do the course work AND knew how to use a screwdriver were the ones that got out with interesting dissertations. The rest just rode on the coat tails of those who could modify, fix, or create the tools of discovery.

The Musks and Ellisons of the world that discount education are the tiny tiny minority who ended up super lucky.

Perhaps Musk can try reading this:
https://aphelis.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ASIMOV_1980_Cult_of_Ignorance.pdf

If you think about it, it shouldn't be surprising that a degree isn't a great accomplishment......because most people enter school with the reasonable expectation of finishing with a diploma. If the schools basically guaranteed that the bottom 25% would not receive a degree, the added hunger games effect might make it more of a milestone to complete. But that would drive prices down as well as interest. It would probably be better for society, but worse for lining the pockets of the institution so it will never happen. College isn't about learning or doing anything other than enriching the organization.

Yep, I remember staying in to study on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday while my roommates were out at the bars. My schedule senior year had me work 30 hours a week (enough to afford my apartment and food) Monday-Thursday as an actuary intern. I had classes Monday-Thursday also, so I had to look ahead do all of my coursework for the next week on Friday-Sunday. I'd usually have to quit when more roommates got home from the bars as it was too loud in the apartment to concentrate. My roommates loved that they could call me as a DD.

Of course, I was a double-major in Finance and Business Information Systems, so my degree is semi-technical.

We don't disagree. So many kids go to college after high school simply because "that's what you are supposed to do"....and flounder at it (yet the colleges are happy to take their $$$ or the goverment's $$$ for it).

Those that are driven will always excel regardless of the path. My main point is that the idea that going to college will make the non-driven become driven is a fallacy and is a massive waste of financial resources forced on the population.

People can be successful with or without traditional college. It just depends on the career path and required credentials.

Are those that agree with Musk embracing the idea that education beyond high school is a waste of time and money? Limited education is better? Or that the only purpose of higher education is to provide a certain financial future?

College today is not like college of 60 years ago. I ghost wrote dozens of papers for students in the last decade and got nothing but A's. I wasn't an A student back when I was in college. In fact, it was too easy. I could research and write a 6 to 10-page paper in 4 hours. Never did the student get questioned about references or plagiarism. And neither did they get dinged on formatting or grammar.

However, I didn't indulge in subjects of physical science, but I did well in living sciences so I wrote a few papers for those subjects.

Zeke, renaissance man. Build you a house, then write an A paper about the fictional people that lived in the house that used to be there

I must have done it wrong, because I learned a lot in college.

Going to college helps you develop a compliant attitude towards work.
After you take out loans and pay through the nose to go to college and be treated like crap by a heartless bureaucracy you feel better about getting a job and get paid to be treated like crap by a heartless bureaucracy.

As one who knows which end of a screwdriver to pick your teeth with I love to tell this story about an egghead, booklearned engineer.
Our lab had a lot of MS and Phd engineers. One of the MS guy called the lab one morning and said his car, an early carbureted Honda Civic, wouldn't start. We told him to test whether it was a fuel or ignition problem by pouring some gas down the carburetor. After half an hour he called back, "I poured a quart of gas down the carburetor and now it won't even turn over!" We found out later he once had to call AAA to change a tire for him.