Navy pulls captain of TR

[tadd]

WTF was 250k?

If the flight is longer than 10 hours you get to upgrade to 1st class, but come on...even at 10k for a short notice flight and a $150 room and per diem at $80...im missing a zero or two.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by tadd

WTF was 250k?

If the flight is longer than 10 hours you get to upgrade to 1st class, but come on...even at 10k for a short notice flight and a $150 room and per diem at $80...im missing a zero or two.

Probably took the Navy Sec jet.

I looked at Modly's record in the Navy. He was not a player.

He made some unfortunate comments and needed to go.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by tadd

WTF was 250k?

If the flight is longer than 10 hours you get to upgrade to 1st class, but come on...even at 10k for a short notice flight and a $150 room and per diem at $80...im missing a zero or two.

Approximate cost was per original reporting by USA Today:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/08/navy-secretary-trip-roosevelt-cost-243-000-leads-modly-ouster/2973486001/

[URY914]

Originally Posted by svandamme

You make it sound like an odd question.

If anybody tells me "Friend X has been admitted to hospital".
I'll always ask "why how, is it serious or not?"

Do you always assume "admitted to hospital" = ICU ???

One of the sailors has now died. Four others are in the hospital. Her son is one of the 4.

She will tell me his condition when she is ready. I'm not going to play 20 questions with her.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by URY914

One of the sailors has now died. Four others are in the hospital. Her son is one of the 4.

She will tell me his condition when she is ready. I'm not going to play 20 questions with her.

ok, I wasn't implying you had to ask for me for me.
Was just asking some thing I thought you might have asked or know.

I would have, I would have just asked, not as curiosity but care and interest for the person involved and who i'm talking to. To know if it's bad and if she needed somebody to talk to or vent , or consolation etc etc..

[Kraftwerk]

"The Navy is looking into whether it can reinstate Capt. Brett E. Crozier". Chain of command is a bit rusty i'd say..

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

"The Navy is looking into whether it can reinstate Capt. Brett E. Crozier". Chain of command is a bit rusty i'd say..

Chain of command should be saying; we weren't wrong when we picked him to be the captain of a 5,000 person crew & 10 billion dollars worth of ship/aircraft in the first place.
Crozier showed he is willing to sacrifice HIS career for his crew. that's called leadership in my book

Teddy R. would of done the same.

Crazy Ted club member for life

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Were you ever in the Military 3rd gear ?
Men that lead with emotion make good and bad mistakes,'
but in times of stressful decisions, they will serve themselves first and their obligations last.
Just as HE did.

Sorry but you are completely clueless about anything outside of your limited wheelhouse. Your claim is completely illogical if one thinks about it.

[fintstone]

The Captain totally screwed up. The fact that he may have done so out of concern for his sailors or that he is popular really do not change how badly he screwed up. He needs to accept the consequences of his actions. Even if the Navy squirms around and finds some political solution to try to salvage his career to reduce the bad press...it changes nothing other than to encourage military to members to disregard the chain of command and rules regarding protection of assets and classified information (if the cause is a popular one or if he disagrees with his appointed or elected leaders).

[450knotOffice]

Monday morning Admirals, all of you. Lol! The US Navy should’ve hired any one of you armchair experts to captain this ship, apparently.

Good god, it’s like sitting around listening to a bunch of pre-solo student pilots critique Bob Hoover’s flying abilities.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Monday morning Admirals, all of you...

It's Thursday, I've never served, and the Navy screwed up royally. Either putting the Capt. in that position, or failing to address his attempts (mebbe CYA by those above him) to mitigate. He knew exactly what he was doing imo...and he is a hero. At least 2-3 above him....barely zero .

From a civilian's perspective...

[KFC911]

^^^ When the guys appointed at the very top are nothing but corporate types...my perspective is just as good as theirs imo. And worth both cents

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Monday morning Admirals, all of you. Lol! The US Navy should’ve hired any one of you armchair experts to captain this ship, apparently.

Good god, it’s like sitting around listening to a bunch of pre-solo student pilots critique Bob Hoover’s flying abilities.

I suspect that many making remarks here are far from "armchair experts"...and have served as long and as well as the Captain (without passing classified that might well have endangered his command/national security). There was a right way to address this...and it was through the chain if command and secure communications, not the press.

Much of the remarks that I see here lauding the Captain's behavior seem to come from those that think command is more a popularity contest. If the Captain really wanted to protect his sailors and was willing to sacrifice his career to do so, he could have kept them on the ship in Danang. They would be alive and he would not have broken the rules or benefitted our enemies (at least not to the same extent)...and likely, no one would have died.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

It's Thursday, I've never served, and the Navy screwed up royally. Either putting the Capt. in that position, or failing to address his attempts (mebbe CYA by those above him) to mitigate. He knew exactly what he was doing imo...and he is a hero. At least 2-3 above him....barely zero .

From a civilian's perspective...

Why would you make the assumption that those above him had failed to address the situation? That has not been what the evidence seems to indicate. He is apparently just the only one to panic.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Why would you make the assumption that those above him had failed to address the situation? That has not been what the evidence seems to indicate. He is apparently just the only one to panic.

I believe the Capt of the TR felt that way, then did what he did, knowing full well the consequences....jmo. I have NO CLUE...just like Modly, and the guy who put him there. Lots of first rate 4 stars have voluntarily said "FU" with resignations recently. I saw one of the top Marine generals on TV sometime back....raising hell about the money being diverted (political) and how it was impacting the Marines ability to do....what Marines do.

I don't know....jmo.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

I believe the Capt of the TR felt that way, then did what he did, knowing full well the consequences....jmo. I have NO CLUE...just like Modly, and the guy who put him there. Lots of first rate 4 stars have voluntarily said "FU" with resignations recently. I saw one of the top Marine generals on TV sometime back....raising hell about the money being diverted (political) and how it was impacting the Marines ability to do....what Marines do.

I don't know....jmo.

Most Admirals and Generals (And some Colonels/Captains) are just very political (to get to that rank). Most, in the past, have rightfully avoided becoming political after their career in the past for the good of the nation. Now, they recognize that there are big bucks to be made as talking heads on TV and in "tell all" books where they whine about their leader's decisions that all are quite sure they could have made better. Military officers of all ranks have always left at the end of their careers...many unhappy to go and give up being practically God to those under them. They just get paid to whine about it now...and don't have the character not to.

[Kraftwerk]

Let's look at this through the 'lens of history' & my armchair opinion... ( i have zero expertise on the subject ) In the future Modly will be seen as the failure, for 'jumping the gun' and not doing a full investigation.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_ted

chain of command should be saying; we weren't wrong when we picked him to be the captain of a 5,000 person crew & 10 billion dollars worth of ship/aircraft in the first place.
Crozier showed he is willing to sacrifice his career for his crew. That's called leadership in my book

teddy r. Would of done the same.

Crazy ted club member for life

^^^ e x a c t l y

[Seahawk]

I have "cruised" on a number of Navy ships, was ships company during what is called a "disassociated sea tour". I did get to fly during that tour so that was a bonus.

Ships CO's walk a very fine line between absolute responsibility (and authority - Captain's Mast still exists) for his or her crew and ship to being at the mercy of the "chain" of command, often a very capricious and addled chain.

I also qualified at Officer of the Deck Underway (OOD) and had my own watch section. "Driving" the ship, especially with an embarked Flag Staff, is often a cluster foxtrot of comic proportions. It is what ships company, and the CO, deal with everyday.

I had the Chief of Staff, an O-6 with zero sense of humor, for an embarked Admiral call me on the bridge: "The Flag is eating, find a better heading for seas..."

Me (LT me): "Sir, we have an underway replenishment tomorrow at 0630 and I need to maintain course for the rendezvous..."

Him: "How is that my problem...you will figure it the F out or you won't...give me a better ride, now, LT..."

I (we) figured it the f out. My CO was asleep and the Junior Officer of the Deck, a Warrant Officer from the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam, my friend, made sure. God Bless Danny B, a Rappahannock Tribe member. Best guy I met in the Navy.

I have seen it work and watched the slow decimation of morale based on CO and Staff actions. I also worked for a guy that became VCNO, a 4 Star. He and I became friends and he was very giving in how to manage information and embarked staffs, the "big picture".

All that said, it has become apparent to me that the CO of the TR knew what he was doing and the inevitable fallout from his actions.

The TR was not his first command at sea. He knew.

It is also increasingly apparent that the Acting Navy Sec was/is a buffoon.

Should that get the CO of the TR his job back? No.

Edit: Here is a little tale from the way back machine.

Admiral Spruance, if you don't know about him, read about him, amazing dude, ran a ship aground in Pearly Harbor. No way he survives that little dust up in today's Navy, but he did then.

The rest is in all the books.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Monday morning Admirals, all of you. Lol! The US Navy should’ve hired any one of you armchair experts to captain this ship, apparently.

Good god, it’s like sitting around listening to a bunch of pre-solo student pilots critique Bob Hoover’s flying abilities.

Hoover was a noob! Had to pour a glass of tea for the brass while showing the abilities of his passenger twin instead of concentrating on his flying. Flew with so little fuel that he had to shut down his engines during his aerobatic routine and flew a Butcher Bird without permission and before getting a check ride in it. I don't care if Yeager said he was the best stick and rudder pilot he ever met. Oh, and he hasn't crashed as much as Harrison Ford, so there!