Glock factory night sights?

[vash]

i'm not that great with my glock because it is me. i dont shoot it often enough.

i did shoot with my brother's police team and it was humbling. all matching G-21. they are surgical. one guy was like a phenom. i think the firearm can get it done.

the glock debate will go on forever, and i have every idea my post on a inexpensive sight upgrade that i should have done right away to avoid this current headache, of boxing, taping, filling out forms, shipping, watching tracking religiously, etc.

i knew it would (degrade might be the wrong word) descend into the old glock debate.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by vash

i'm not that great with my glock because it is me. i dont shoot it often enough.

i did shoot with my brother's police team and it was humbling. all matching G-21. they are surgical. one guy was like a phenom. i think the firearm can get it done.

the glock debate will go on forever, and i have every idea my post on a inexpensive sight upgrade that i should have done right away to avoid this current headache, of boxing, taping, filling out forms, shipping, watching tracking religiously, etc.

i knew it would (degrade might be the wrong word) descend into the old glock debate.

Glock = Harley?

[vash]

well, that was exciting. i tracked my shipment to Glock like i was NORAD.

it landed, and is with them. i think the danger is when they ship it back. they will leave it on my doorstep. YIKES!!

i hope/pray they give me a tracking number on the way back.

[vash]

one of my retired supervisors is planning a private land gun shoot. i hope to get it back by then.

bring what you own. rimfire and up. accuracy contest. bragging rights.

[Rick Lee]

I bought a SIG P365 about a year ago from a guy in PA. He had his FFL ship it to my FFL. Gun was shipped LOADED and left on my FFL's front porch, no signature required. Some idiots, even FFLs, give the rest of us gun nuts a bad name.

[vash]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I bought a SIG P365 about a year ago from a guy in PA. He had his FFL ship it to my FFL. Gun was shipped LOADED and left on my FFL's front porch, no signature required. Some idiots, even FFLs, give the rest of us gun nuts a bad name.

LOADED!!!! holy!!

[vash]

okay, that is wild.

they called me, i should get it back TUESDAY!! nuts. nice guys, i was yucking it up with them. we got sidetracked talking about SPAM robo-calls.

[Rick Lee]

Glock customer support is great. Glocks are not for everyone, and I like them for the opposite reasons they are so popular and common. But you have to respect the engineering. They are well made and go bang every time. Ain't gonna win a beauty contest, but they just work.

[vash]

i'm going to shoot mine much more. i have my grip much improved these days.

[911boost]

In 20 plus years of ownership mine has never not gone bang.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Pretty much my sentiments as well. Glocks are made for folks who are not really shooters, but have a need for a gun. The more one shoots, and the better one gets at it, the less use one has for a Glock. Great for police departments and the like who do not provide enough practice time and ammo for their officers to get all that proficient. Great for city councils and the like who know nothing about guns, but want their police departments to only be armed with "safe" (and cheap) guns.

My biggest complaint is the trigger. I cannot think of a worse trigger on any firearm I've ever handled. It works, it makes the gun go "bang", and for a non-shooter who has never been exposed (or exposed very little) to a fine revolver or 1911 trigger, I'm sure it seems just fine. And yes, for exceedingly close range "combat" or defensive shooting, it is. It's entirely functional. But for those of us who shoot recreationally, and have some expectations of accuracy at longer ranges (like staying on a soup can offhand at 50 yards), forget it. Nothing but frustration with that trigger.

And then there is the plastic. I just can't see a Glock as an "heirloom quality" firearm. I plan on passing my firearms on to my two boys, and they will pass them on to my grandchildren, and hopefully so on and so forth. They are wood and steel, mostly blued steel. As much of an expression of the art of the firearm as they are practical tools. Glocks, while extremely functional, will never be accused of that.

And, finally, yes - I am a firearms traditionalist and quite obviously curmudgeon. And as long as I have your attention - get off my lawn...

I hear you (and am not particularly fond of Glocks myself), but just a couple counter-points:

A Glock is not designed to be an "heirloom quality" firearm. It is designed with actual duty use in mind, with no unnecessary complications. They are rugged, lightweight, reasonably accurate, with good capacity, and dead-nuts reliable.
All while also being relatively inexpensive. It's the VW Bug of handguns.

A Glock is not really something you buy to pass down to your kids, but something you carry with no fear of scratching, holster wear, or even losing it, should you ever have to use it (you will certainly lose a gun if you use it...and if/when you ever do get it back it will likely be beat/scratched to hell). IOW, it's a relatively "disposable" appliance.

Regarding accuracy: Most are acceptably accurate right out of the box, and even exceptionally accurate depending on the model/barrel length/caliber. They can also be massaged into extremely accurate guns with a bit of money thrown at them. If the AR is the rifle equivalent to "man Legos" then the Glock is the pistol equivalent (displacing the 1911 that previously held the title). There are enough do-dads, upgrades, and ad-ons for Glocks to make your head spin.

Lots of competitive Glock shooters out there with well-stocked trophy cases as well.

That being said, my personal preference for Tupperware guns are the HK variants.

[Tim Hancock]

I had a private lesson with this somewhat local pro Bob Vogel many years ago... He is simply phenomenal at high speed and accurate defensive type shooting. He has won national championships and he is superhuman when competing in matches. If you ever meet him, I do not recommend shaking his hand (your hand will be sore for days lol)

A quick internet search will yield you some great videos he has posted over the years.
Here he describes the importance of a good high and forward grip.

[vash]

we were deer hunting in AZ one year. someone mentioned, man we should cook some rabbit.

driving to a spot to find cell service, my brother says, STOP. screech.

he points out a cottontail. about 30 yards out. my brother hit that thing in the head with his G21. i cant guarantee where he was aiming, but i was floored. it was an amazing shot. but he shoots thousands of rounds a month.

i joined him on a work shoot and they get ammo in a big galvanized bucket. i would get pretty proficient as well, if my ammo came in the bucket load.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by vash

i joined him on a work shoot and they get ammo in a big galvanized bucket. i would get pretty proficient as well, if my ammo came in the bucket load.

Vash you should get a .22 conversion kit for your Glock. I have one for mine so I could practice with cheap ammo. The weight and recoil is not the same, but it is cheap shooting.



.22 slide installed


To change, takes seconds.... Just swap slides

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Vash you should get a .22 conversion kit for your Glock. I have one for mine so I could practice with cheap ammo. The weight and recoil is not the same, but it is cheap shooting.



.22 slide installed


To change, takes seconds.... Just swap slides

Is that the OEM guide rod or a blacked out after market?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

I hear you (and am not particularly fond of Glocks myself), but just a couple counter-points:

A Glock is not designed to be an "heirloom quality" firearm. It is designed with actual duty use in mind, with no unnecessary complications. They are rugged, lightweight, reasonably accurate, with good capacity, and dead-nuts reliable.
All while also being relatively inexpensive. It's the VW Bug of handguns.

A Glock is not really something you buy to pass down to your kids, but something you carry with no fear of scratching, holster wear, or even losing it, should you ever have to use it (you will certainly lose a gun if you use it...and if/when you ever do get it back it will likely be beat/scratched to hell). IOW, it's a relatively "disposable" appliance.

Regarding accuracy: Most are acceptably accurate right out of the box, and even exceptionally accurate depending on the model/barrel length/caliber. They can also be massaged into extremely accurate guns with a bit of money thrown at them. If the AR is the rifle equivalent to "man Legos" then the Glock is the pistol equivalent (displacing the 1911 that previously held the title). There are enough do-dads, upgrades, and ad-ons for Glocks to make your head spin.

Lots of competitive Glock shooters out there with well-stocked trophy cases as well.

That being said, my personal preference for Tupperware guns are the HK variants.

I absolutely agree with all of that, Eric. Definitely. I have huge respect for Glock, and what they represent. They fill a very real need. Just not my cup of tea.

I have handguns that see very hard use. Or used to anyway, while I was still spending an inordinate amount of time hunting all over hell and gone. We're talking things like staying constantly wet for three weeks in Alaska, with their only chance to "dry out" inside a wall tent. Yes, sometimes they rusted a bit, even the stainless steel ones. The coastal salt air will do that. But, I don't mind - every worn through spot on the bluing, every polished off rust spot has a story. And hopefully those stories get passed on.

I do have just one counterpoint. I often hear that "if you use a gun you will lose that gun". This has been a topic of discussion in gun circles for as long as I can remember. My gun club, years ago, actually held a "self defense and the law" kind of a seminar, wherein we had many experts, both civilian and LEO, lawyers and laymen, giving advice and recounting their experiences.

What we learned was that in the case of lawful self defense, that is hardly ever the case. Especially if the shooting occurred in your own home or on your own property. Out on the street, it gets a little dicier, but - what we were told - is that unless there was sufficient probably cause to see you arrested, you are not legally required to forfeit your property. In these cases, your gun.

Yes, by all means, you will surrender it upon the arrival of the police as they secure the crime scene and get things sorted. If they wind up arresting you (and they often will), the gun will be kept as evidence. If they do not arrest you, they do not get to keep the gun. If you are released with no charges, they do not get to keep the gun. The only way they get to legally keep it is if charges are filed. Oh, many will try, many will say it's "departmental policy", but the fact remains it is illegal to keep your firearm unless it's being held as evidence in the crime for which you have been charged.

That's what we were told, anyway. This is Washington state, and we do have very strong pro-gun, pro-self defense law here. "Shall issue" concealed carry, permit less open carry, "castle doctrine" laws, and "stand your ground" laws. I'm sure other states vary a good deal, but that's the way it is here.

[tabs]

back long long long ago in another age (late 80's)I used to occasionally frequently the Pomona Gun Shop on Holt and Garey. The proprietor of the shop was a retired US ARMY COLONEL who shot in Army competitions in the 1930's. He said that in the 30's the 1911 became the pistol of choice to shoot in competition taking over from the revolver. His comment was that the revolver was the weapon of the 19th Century, the 1911 the weapon of the 20th century and the Glock the weapon of the 21st century.

He sadly passed away a couple of years later...

Another friend of mine who I met at Fowlers Sport Center on Rosemead in Pasadena was a B24 pilot in WW2, owned a cloth business who had the contract to sell cloth for make your own clothing to Sears and JC Penny's on the west coast..while living in San Marino CA. After he sold out he used to play golf everyday at Brookside Park up by the Rose bowl where he gave lessons and fixed clubs. He was a wheeler dealer buying and selling various things like cars, Rolexs, and spoons (he started buying spoons right after WW2). He never kept a spoon for very long, petting it for awhile and then turning it over...After awhile he would sometimes buy the same model again...He was a known at Rettings and Pony Express..(he passed away in late December of 1999 while watching the Golf Channel). The point of this is that one day he showed me a prewar Beretta 1935 in 32 caliber that he was enamored with...he said look at this (meaning quality) it has heft and an all steel frame... I was a little nonplussed at the time..

Recently having bought a Langdon, Beretta has gotten my attention. The model 1934 in 38 Corto was the Itie military's std issue side arm during WW2. Where even the Germans. Finns and Romanians had a preference for them. a very sturdy and durable side arm. Production of them continued until 1980 with 1,080,000 produced. So I found a nice 99%er post war commercial made in 66 out in GA.. Now I can see what my friend liked about them, the high polish bluing is fantastic...just 35 years later!

[tabs]

The other thing I wanted to revisit is a Arsenal SAM7 SF..forged and milled Bulgarian...I had one of the Limited ed of 300 produced right after the Ban expired in 04. Traded it off as a partial payment for an SR25. I missed that one..

Back in 13 Arsenal reintroduced the SAM 7SF.. basically stopping production in early 18 where you could buy them for 1375.00 plus freight and receiving on GB...not discontinuing it but they had other military contract fish to fry..the American market is an afterthought for the Bulgarians ..so by the time I started looking for one last fall they had already been sold out..

So I started looking on the secondary auction market, where they infrequently show up. I also called Arsenal from time to time chatting with the receptionist about when they might start to receive them again. I talked to KVAR here in LV who is the Distributor for Arsenal in the USA, putting my name down on the lis to contact. Then beginning in 9/19 7 of them showed up at auctions in various parts of the country. Invariably they were selling for between 1400 to 1600..I balked because MSRP was 1449.00. And then about December the SAM 7R..fixed stock model became available for 1369.00 through KVAR.

During one of my conversations the Receptionist at Arsenal mentioned that Arsenal was having difficulty importing the SAM's...and that they were out of stock on the SAM 7R's...Whoops now it became imperative that I get a hold of one..before the word got out that they have become unobtainable... So one popped up at auction in Ohio in mid January where I strategized my bidding to come out on top..I knew what they were selling for at auction so I got there first...out the door delivered, tax and receiving fee $1505.00. As it turned out the one I got was NIB unfired.. At the time on GB they were going for 1800 to 2000.... In February KVAR was getting 2250.00 a pop on GB...

Today a SAM 7R...went for 1550.00 wt buyers prem then add in shipping..to a gun dealer at auction...I think Collectors Arms in Houston?

So as it turns out my timing and pricing was fortuitous.

BTW the Bulgarian forged and milled is the Cadillac of the AK world...they originally contacted with the Soviets to mfg the Milled receiver because the stamped receivers were not perfected yet...The first imported Chinese Poly Tech milled receivers are well thought of bringing in the 2500 range as a collector. Then the SAIGA's from Russia double stamped and pinned trunions which thanks to sanctions you can not get anymore are desirable. The Molot Vepr in 308 or 7.62 X 54R is nice.. last price 1799...Then there is the latest Zastava from Serbia..which is a lot of bang for the buck...for 799...they also are offering a M91 designated marksman rifle aka sniper in 7.62 X 54R for 3129.00...closest thing to a Russian Dragunov which have been hitting the 20K mark regularly at auction as of late...friend of mine who knew his stuff...didn't like the Dragunov because he said the scopes shoot loose...

Ian used to coach the US Olympic team...

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I do have just one counterpoint. I often hear that "if you use a gun you will lose that gun". This has been a topic of discussion in gun circles for as long as I can remember. My gun club, years ago, actually held a "self defense and the law" kind of a seminar, wherein we had many experts, both civilian and LEO, lawyers and laymen, giving advice and recounting their experiences.

What we learned was that in the case of lawful self defense, that is hardly ever the case. Especially if the shooting occurred in your own home or on your own property. Out on the street, it gets a little dicier, but - what we were told - is that unless there was sufficient probably cause to see you arrested, you are not legally required to forfeit your property. In these cases, your gun.

Yes, by all means, you will surrender it upon the arrival of the police as they secure the crime scene and get things sorted. If they wind up arresting you (and they often will), the gun will be kept as evidence. If they do not arrest you, they do not get to keep the gun. If you are released with no charges, they do not get to keep the gun. The only way they get to legally keep it is if charges are filed. Oh, many will try, many will say it's "departmental policy", but the fact remains it is illegal to keep your firearm unless it's being held as evidence in the crime for which you have been charged.

Good call, should have clarified...and I would emphasize the "many will try" point/angle.

If you are released with no charges/citations, then you "should not" have to surrender your firearm. If you are arrested, cited, or end up in some scenario where your firearm ends up in PD custody at the station, then all bets are off.
However, even if you are ultimately not charged, there can often be hoops to jump through to get your gun back.

I have first-hand experience with this, involving an off-duty LEO, who found himself in a sticky situation (detained and taken to the station for questioning but ultimately released when the facts came to light), and it took threat via his attorney and his home-department LT. pitching a fit to get his gun back in a timely manor.

I've also have direct experience with a "guns out" situation (potential road rager approaching my vehicle) where the police were called by onlookers. They showed up, and initiated a felony stop on me (the other guy took off prior to their arrival). I was detained on scene, my firearm was taken, and was held for 30+ minutes or so while they conducted their investigation. I was subsequently cleared/released, and given my gun back immediately (they unloaded it, set it in my trunk, and put the mag +1 round in the glove box). The other guy was arrested after they caught up with him later that afternoon. Fun times!

[Rick Lee]

How can the cops not take your gun after a SD shooting? If they can't do a ballistics test, there'd be all kinds of ways for foul play to get disguised as a justified SD shoot. If they take your gun and find out the dead guy in your kitchen was shot with a different gun than the one you said you used, that would be something they'd want to investigate further. And it's not like they can do that test right there on scene. And if multiple guns are used, as in more than one assailant or homeowner, I can't see how the cops would not absolutely be justified in matching guns and bullets and owners. Not talking about scenarios where no shots are fired. But death or bodily injury by gunshot? Must do ballistics test with any guns found on scene.