Pax Americana

tabs · 02-26-2003, 02:16 AM

I can't go through all the paranoid delusions that have been posted.....about how evil the USA is or on the other hand how rightous the USA is....We are way beyond that now.

If U are an American and think this country is the evil underhanded empire......I got news for you...you are part of it, you enjoy the benfits of the ill gotten swag. If you don't think so go wash your clothes on a rock like most of the world does.

If you think this country is the right hand of Gawd......think again.....I do believe that our ideals are the better nature of the angels BUT we do have our limits and do act with expediency and sometimes our hands get dirty. So there are valid reasons why people hate the USA in the world.

I think that the Irak situation is a done deal...we will go to war, it may get messy if Irak uses it's WMD. The USA will win.

The simple fact of the matter is that the USA is the most powerfull country in the world...Politically, economically and militarily. Americans have to get used to the fact that we have to use our power in some way....we have to go forward. If the USA does nothing the consequences maybe dire. As the most powerfull country in the world the world looks to the USA for leadership, if we abdicate our leadership someone else will take it and our power will wane.....that is the nature of things...

I know there are alot of conseratives in the USA that see the UN as a useless organization that should be abolished. I don't believe that GW believes that himself, but there are those in his administration that do. They have his ear. GW's attitude seems to be that the interests of the USA and American people comes first. That the USA is going to act in those interests, regardless if other countries like it or not. Maybe he should be more like Bill Clinton, telling them he loves them before he fk's them...... maybe it would slide in easier.

Isabo · 02-26-2003, 03:21 AM

A hard but valid analysis that I have to agree with.
This is from an American who has hardly ever lived in the States and is married to an Italian.

hardflex · 02-26-2003, 10:43 AM

A cop out at best, an admission that our "guy" is out of control and we can't do anything about it.

you imply movement is always forward, when you can always move backward and to the side. have you forgotten the Shah of Iran? Why do you think we'll be more successful this time with our puppet installation?

And leadership of the world? Bush is abdicating our leadership postion by going in a direction other nations don't want to go. He'll soon find out you can't browbeat everyone into submission without losing some along the way. If this continues, we'll lose the UN and NATO for the sake of his quest for vengeance.

Me, I'm counting the days till I can vote him out (for the record I was for him in 2000. I just hope he hasn't done too much damage in the meantime.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 02-26-2003, 11:48 AM

In my opinion, Bush is the same thing as Saddam Hussein. Watching Bush on TV reminds me of Hitler at Nuremburg. This whole attitude that developed after 9/11 that Americans should be patriotic and support the troops, as they "liberate" Afgansistan.

I support our troops the most when i say bring them home.

tabs · 02-26-2003, 12:25 PM

You move forward to meet the challenge of the day. GW has risen to the challenge of what to do with American Power....for better or worse. Rather than waffle and dilly dally around like the Europeans and Liberal Americans are so want of doing. It seems like Liberals don't want to deal with the fact that the USA is the most powerful country in the world, and that entails RESPONSIBILITY for their actions, and sometimes those actions are not pretty and your hands have to get dirty. Liberals live in lala land where they absolve themselves of taking action and responsibilty by endless confering about what the lastest polls says. Meanwhile back at the ranch the badguys , those who have no scruples or illusions about the use of power are running planes into the WTC and building weapons of MD. So what do you want to do stand around like the French, who BTW have said, "Oh the Ameericans will be around to take care of Sodam when the time comes"... Well boys the time has come......the crunch is here either you put the chips on the line or your gona lose what you got....meaning for U Porsche whackos out there NO MORE PORSCHES....If you don't believe me just think about what Globalization of the economy means, and if the USA doesn't project it's power and leadership that system will come crashing down around your ears. U might as well start looking for a nice rock to wash your clothes on.

BTW: The Shadow Minister of Defense to the UK delivered a speech to the House of Commons after 911. In the speech he said, "The USA has been the guarntor of Global security for the world since WW2, if the USA fails to act or fails in it's actions Global security will fail." Meaning the Global economy will fail......So welcome to a Depression that makes the Great Depression of the 1930's look like a pinic in the park.

Get Real Boyz

hardflex · 02-26-2003, 05:33 PM

"Meaning the Global economy will fail......So welcome to a Depression that makes the Great Depression of the 1930's look like a pinic in the park. "

Cmon! Looks like a Paranoid Delusion if I ever saw one!

If non of Irags neighbors feel threatened, the biggest threat to world security is Bush spouting daily "WAR, WAR, WAR". The daily stock market headline is "War hangs over market", and the price of oil heads toward $40. 7 times more people outside the US feel Bush is a bigger threat to world peace than Saddam or N Korea.

As I recall, the start of the Gulf War coincided with a slowdown in the US Economy and never recovered when "stability" was restored and Kuwait was restored. It's why the elder Bush was not re-elected after having 90% approval ratings during the war

island911 · 02-26-2003, 10:21 PM

tabs - spot on.

hardflex - Iraqs neighbors like the status quo. It allows them to get more $ for there oil, while the US keeps Saddam at bay, with enforcement of no-fly zone, and such. Please reallize, Iraq has been taking pot shots at US planes for a decade now. If we picked up and left, mass killings would resume, and those "non-threatened neighbors" would be feel a bit different.

For the record. I didn't vote for Bush. I didn't like a whole lot of things he was about. However, I am very glad he is leading now.
Surprisingly, he is very much his own man. Also unexpected is his ability to re-invent himself as needed. (read: post 9/11)

racea911 · 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared at Pelican Parts
In my opinion, Bush is the same thing as Saddam Hussein. Watching Bush on TV reminds me of Hitler at Nuremburg. This whole attitude that developed after 9/11 that Americans should be patriotic and support the troops, as they "liberate" Afgansistan.

I support our troops the most when i say bring them home.

Bush is the same thing as Saddam Hussein? Oh my gosh Jared, you are right. Remember that time George Bush's armies invaded, raped, pillaged and occupied our smaller weaker neighbor to the south? And then he wouldn't leave until the United Nations led by Iraq and a huge coalition forced him to retreat. Remember that time that Bush used chemical weapons and killed thousands of men, women and children in Detroit? What about all the people that Bush has in prisons for merely disagreeing with his politics? I've heard that George Bush personally enjoys watching the videos of these people being tortured. Remember that time a couple of weeks ago that Saddam Hussein allowed hundreds of thousands of war protestors take to the streets of Baghdad and demonstrate against him? Also, what about after George Bush became president, and he had over 400 political and military leaders tortured and killed because they opposed him? That was horrible. I hope that the souls of Al Gore, Bill and Hillary, Gephardt, Daschle, Boxer, Feinstein, McDermott, Susan Sarandon, Rosie O'Donnel, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin etc etc etc can REST IN PEACE after they were all murdered for opposing Bush. Do I really need to continue about how exactly the "Same" Hussein and Bush are?

And I am also shocked at the similarities between Bush and Hitler. Bush has invaded and occupied all of his neighbors and killed 6 million Jews hasn't he Jared? To say that Bush reminds you of Hitler is historically and politically retarded.

But, I have found SOMETHING about Bush that is exactly like Hussein and Hitler..... ALL THREE OF THEM HAVE EARS!!!!!

Those who endlessly spout off about how the USA has no proof about WMD and links to terrorism just cause me to roll on the floor with laughter. Could you possibly assume for just a minute that Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Rice etc are privy to important classified information that the rest of us aren't shown? Would you at least allow for the possiblity that our leaders know more about what is REALLY going on in Iraq than you, or Susan Sarandon or Sean Penn do? Yet we have to endure the political opinions of people who read freaking scripts for a living? As if that somehow qualifies them or puts them "in the know" as to what is going on in the world. They are as QUALIFIED to comment on Iraq as my trashman, or myself is. Sure they have a RIGHT to comment, but they are not fully informed enough to form an intelligent opinion. Neither am I, and I will reserve judgement until this is over. I will also let the politics of my country be handled by people whose job it is to know more about the ENTIRE SITUATION than I do, or a guy selling car parts knows or a woman who starred in "Thelma and Louise" knows.

Jared, I am not interested in a response from you. I have no respect for the validity of an opinion from someone who could post such complete and utter rubbish. Feel free to disagree with everything Bush does, but posting about similarites between Bush, Hussein, and Hitler really makes you look uninformed, uneducated and frighteningly foolish.

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

Anyone happen to see the Jeneanne Garafolo interview on FOX news last Sunday? Makes me wish actors only existed in make-believe land. I'm happy to live in a country where people are free to express their polical views. I'm embarassed to live in a country where some of our most outspoken and visible people are so out of tune with reality. Don't ferget to have your 35 year old vehicle smog-checked....

tabs · 02-27-2003, 02:58 PM

Now this all might be a projection on my part..... meaning my own personal delusional he!!....and I will sit here trying to balance things out as best I can.....But the people of the USA have been on the gravy train since the end of WW2. If you have ever been to a 3rd world country coming back to America is like going to Disney Land. The wealth and availability of food and consumer goods is just staggering.

So Americans just can't get their minds around the fact that they can lose it all....it's beyond conception. Basically because it's gone on for so long......but the Great Depression of the 1930's happened and who among U is going to say it can't happen again. Remember those who were proclaiming the end of history? This is one where I would positivily hate to say, "I told you so."

There are times when one has to stand up and say, "No matter what, this is the side of the fence I am on." A lot of Americans don't seem to have goten the message, they seem to think things are still business as usual and things are hunky dory. I didn't invent the Shadow Defense Minister to the UK's speech or what Democratic Senator Biden, or even what Congressman Gephardt is saying. But I think Americans better sober up and realize exactly whats on the line.....

Jared at Pelican Parts · 02-27-2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by racea911
Bush is the same thing as Saddam Hussein? Oh my gosh Jared, you are right. Remember that time George Bush's armies invaded, raped, pillaged and occupied our smaller weaker neighbor to the south? And then he wouldn't leave until the United Nations led by Iraq and a huge coalition forced him to retreat. Remember that time that Bush used chemical weapons and killed thousands of men, women and children in Detroit? What about all the people that Bush has in prisons for merely disagreeing with his politics? I've heard that George Bush personally enjoys watching the videos of these people being tortured. Remember that time a couple of weeks ago that Saddam Hussein allowed hundreds of thousands of war protestors take to the streets of Baghdad and demonstrate against him? Also, what about after George Bush became president, and he had over 400 political and military leaders tortured and killed because they opposed him? That was horrible. I hope that the souls of Al Gore, Bill and Hillary, Gephardt, Daschle, Boxer, Feinstein, McDermott, Susan Sarandon, Rosie O'Donnel, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin etc etc etc can REST IN PEACE after they were all murdered for opposing Bush. Do I really need to continue about how exactly the "Same" Hussein and Bush are?

And I am also shocked at the similarities between Bush and Hitler. Bush has invaded and occupied all of his neighbors and killed 6 million Jews hasn't he Jared? To say that Bush reminds you of Hitler is historically and politically retarded.

But, I have found SOMETHING about Bush that is exactly like Hussein and Hitler..... ALL THREE OF THEM HAVE EARS!!!!!

Those who endlessly spout off about how the USA has no proof about WMD and links to terrorism just cause me to roll on the floor with laughter. Could you possibly assume for just a minute that Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Rice etc are privy to important classified information that the rest of us aren't shown? Would you at least allow for the possiblity that our leaders know more about what is REALLY going on in Iraq than you, or Susan Sarandon or Sean Penn do? Yet we have to endure the political opinions of people who read freaking scripts for a living? As if that somehow qualifies them or puts them "in the know" as to what is going on in the world. They are as QUALIFIED to comment on Iraq as my trashman, or myself is. Sure they have a RIGHT to comment, but they are not fully informed enough to form an intelligent opinion. Neither am I, and I will reserve judgement until this is over. I will also let the politics of my country be handled by people whose job it is to know more about the ENTIRE SITUATION than I do, or a guy selling car parts knows or a woman who starred in "Thelma and Louise" knows.

Jared, I am not interested in a response from you. I have no respect for the validity of an opinion from someone who could post such complete and utter rubbish. Feel free to disagree with everything Bush does, but posting about similarites between Bush, Hussein, and Hitler really makes you look uninformed, uneducated and frighteningly foolish.

Well, as i stated at the beginning, it is merely my opinion.

island911 · 02-27-2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared at Pelican Parts
Well, as i stated at the beginning, it is merely my opinion.

. . .. He states sheepishly.

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
. . .A lot of Americans don't seem to have goten the message, they seem to think things are still business as usual and things are hunky dory. . . . I think Americans better sober up and realize exactly whats on the line.....

That's what I'm seeing too. However, (fortunately) even many leftist leaders have identified the magnatude of the situation, and are in agreement about the need to act.

The few whom are clinging to the "give peace a chance" seem to be nothing more than leftist sheep on auto-pilot. They seem to have a bit too much leftist inetia to slow down their "business as usual"-- "Bush is evil; do nothing and it will all be just fine" programing. Sooner or later they will reallize they won't gain any moral highground by comparing GW's actions to Saddams or Hitlers

racea911 · 02-27-2003, 03:40 PM

How do you form an opinion that has no factual basis whatsoever ? It is my "opinion" that the sky is below my feet, that the ground is in the air, that pigs fly out of my backside, that Porsches are built on Venus. Calling something an opinion, does not excuse you to just rattle off the most asenine statements imaginable.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 02-27-2003, 03:41 PM

You are free to your opinion. I am free to mine.

hardflex · 02-27-2003, 03:44 PM

bah bah rightest sheep

out of curiousity guys, if saddam having these weapons is serious enough to spend 75billion dollars and "Massacre" (those are Colen Powells words, as viewed on Frontline) Iraqi troops, what should be done about the people and/or corporations that sold them parts to make them. Should they be tried as War Criminals? Life imprisonment? Executed?

Jared at Pelican Parts · 02-27-2003, 03:47 PM

Good Point hardflex

tabs · 02-27-2003, 03:50 PM

If U read my other stuff the WMD is just the cover reason why we are going in. It's Geo Poitical and showing American will, to those who theink Americans are weak paper tigers.....and I quote Bin Laden . Oh U mean proscute the executives at Dow chemical and DuPont.. for selling the fixings...LOL... nice try anyway.

hardflex · 02-27-2003, 03:52 PM

"That's what I'm seeing too. However, (fortunately) even many leftist leaders have identified the magnatude of the situation, and are in agreement about the need to act"

Even General Swartskoff (sp?) has advocated giving the UN inspectors time to work. Remember him, He led our troops in the 1st Gulf War.

hardflex · 02-27-2003, 04:05 PM

And so it's good ole American Imperialism and not the WMD, I'm sure the German people felt the same in the 30's, so Jerod's vision is not that far out of line. Ya see, guys, the Bad guys don't always wear Black hats or boots so we can identify them.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 02-27-2003, 04:07 PM

Hardflex, thanks for making my point a little clearer.

The economy and social conditions in America are very similar to those that plagued Germany in the 1930's Except it's the Muslims instead of the Jews this time.