Any IT professionals here?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by widebody911

In this realm infrastructure-as-a-service tools are hot, eg puppet, chef, salt, Kubernetes, helm, etc, etc, etc

Absolutely. It's hard to get an email that doesn't have one or several of those mentioned.

[John Rogers]

I retired 10 years ago as a Senior Oracle Database Administrator. I was a Nuclear machinist in the US Navy for over 20 years, went to school on my VA bill, got a BSCS and a MSSE before it ran out. I was also able to get my first computer position to send me to Oracle school for 6 weeks to get me my Oracle cert. All during the 25 years in computers I was either programing SQL/PLSQL/JAVA/C++ and finally web based apps. This is a pretty good field for someone like me who is a real stickler for details AND you get a lot of $$$$$$$. When I retired in 2010 I was making $160K as a contractor but the down sides are two: #1 is NO mistakes and #2 is changes and upgrades are done on holidays or long weekends. Not a big deal as when I was in the Navy I always gave my guys holidays off and I would have the wife and 4 girls come on board for Thanksgiving dinner, ETC. My oldest daughter loved that and would always end up sitting at a table with some young guys!

We used to say the last guys out of the door if a company failed would be the SYSADMIN and the Oracle DBA. When the Avexus company failed......we were last out! Also first in
the door when another company bought the code for the software and took over the customer support.

[Oracle]

IT guy for 30 years:
If I had to give that advise to my son would be:

Get on AWS & Azure certification and get good with the modern software development ways (CI/CD - Agile).

But to remain in IT you need to keep reinventing yourself. IT will eat you if you're not curious about new technologies or you become obsolete in 10 years time.

[HardDrive]

Bypass IT altogether.

Go get a SCRUM master certification. Make a 100k+ year as a Jira jockey.

(I actually love our SCRUM master, she brings huge amounts of energy and structure to our organization.....but she is not on line at 2AM when a service is down....)

[930addict]

Originally Posted by widebody911

The most successful IT guys I know have diverse backgrounds and don't have certs in anything; they've learned in the trenches to be able to be competent in a wide variety of disciplines.

There's truth in this^^. I've been in IT for about 21 years. I started without a college degree building custom systems and doing both field and phone support (I had some background as I was a nerdy kid). As I gained experience and knowledge from reading books (I used to live at the Computer Literacy Bookshop in San Jose) I've had opportunities to build and manage networks, websites, client/server data driven applications, virtualized data centers and complete VDI solutions. Over time I became an expert in Windows technologies (AD, DHCP, DNS, SCCM, PKI, SQL, Powershell, Azure etc).

It wasn't until I started getting into the upper ranks that I decided I had to go back to school and finish my college degree as this was holding me back. A few years later I finished a BS in IT Security and Master's in Cybersecurity and Information Assurance. fast forward to now and I have about 1.5 years until I retire at 50. So the IT industry has been good to me. I plan on doing consulting work after I retire.

If your son is interested in Cybersecurity, Western Governors has a good Cybersecurity Program. It was recommended to me by a colleague and I was happy with it. Best of all it is very affordable.

While you don't need an Ivy league degree in this field, I think he would move up faster and have more opportunities presented to him with the degree. So he probably shouldn't wait as long as I did to get that out of the way.

One more piece of advice for him regarding the direction the industry is moving - generally speaking, a lot of the middle-tier jobs like sys admins are getting automated out of the picture. Over time you will have the architects and engineers designing, building and automating and then technicians to do the manual grunt work.

Also, as he progresses in the field he should try to get into an organization where IT is revenue generating instead of being looked at as an expense. The former usually has all the funding whereas the latter gets whatever money is left over.

[RANDY P]

I hold a CISSP and about one class away from getting my MSCIA from WGU. Funny, I get picked up for messed up contract gigs at major banks sorting out all kinds of regulatory issues. Been that way for years. I do believe I'm pigeonholed, but it's OK for now.

Cash is good tho and business has gone beserk with the latest economic fail. Fed wants reporting on all kinds of things the bank is up to.

[Bigtoe32067]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

I retired 10 years ago as a Senior Oracle Database Administrator. I was a Nuclear machinist in the US Navy for over 20 years, went to school on my VA bill, got a BSCS and a MSSE before it ran out. I was also able to get my first computer position to send me to Oracle school for 6 weeks to get me my Oracle cert. All during the 25 years in computers I was either programing SQL/PLSQL/JAVA/C++ and finally web based apps. This is a pretty good field for someone like me who is a real stickler for details AND you get a lot of $$$$$$$. When I retired in 2010 I was making $160K as a contractor but the down sides are two: #1 is NO mistakes and #2 is changes and upgrades are done on holidays or long weekends. Not a big deal as when I was in the Navy I always gave my guys holidays off and I would have the wife and 4 girls come on board for Thanksgiving dinner, ETC. My oldest daughter loved that and would always end up sitting at a table with some young guys!

We used to say the last guys out of the door if a company failed would be the SYSADMIN and the Oracle DBA. When the Avexus company failed......we were last out! Also first in
the door when another company bought the code for the software and took over the customer support.

Thanks for your service John. I was a Nuclear Machinist Mate also just not as long as you.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

I have been in IT for decades. The industry is on the verge of a major shakeup, software will be code generated start to stop in just a few years. Focus is on cloud and cyber security, however the small folks cannot compete with the big $$ industry giants going forward. I suggest a career outside of IT, if comfortable or trainable with tools, plumbing and electrical. Difficult industry to automate.

This.
You can’t outsource taking a dump.

Or machinist.

The problem with IT is you need to stay current. And when you put in the effort to do so, you are overpaid compared to someone wet behind the ears. So without specialized domain knowledge you are in a race to the bottom.

[stealthn]

Lots of good advice here.

I’ve been designing and installing wired and wireless networks since punch-cards went away. I also focus on security, which I think you need the networks background to get good at.

The problem now is companies want 1 person to do a job that would take 3 or 4 people to fill, so you either specialize in something that will be popular long from now, or get good at 2-3 disciplines.

Tell him to find something he likes and work up from layer 1

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 930addict

There's truth in this^^. I've been in IT for about 21 years. I started without a college degree building custom systems and doing both field and phone support (I had some background as I was a nerdy kid). As I gained experience and knowledge from reading books (I used to live at the Computer Literacy Bookshop in San Jose) I've had opportunities to build and manage networks, websites, client/server data driven applications, virtualized data centers and complete VDI solutions. Over time I became an expert in Windows technologies (AD, DHCP, DNS, SCCM, PKI, SQL, Powershell, Azure etc).

It wasn't until I started getting into the upper ranks that I decided I had to go back to school and finish my college degree as this was holding me back. A few years later I finished a BS in IT Security and Master's in Cybersecurity and Information Assurance. fast forward to now and I have about 1.5 years until I retire at 50. So the IT industry has been good to me. I plan on doing consulting work after I retire.

If your son is interested in Cybersecurity, Western Governors has a good Cybersecurity Program. It was recommended to me by a colleague and I was happy with it. Best of all it is very affordable.

While you don't need an Ivy league degree in this field, I think he would move up faster and have more opportunities presented to him with the degree. So he probably shouldn't wait as long as I did to get that out of the way.

One more piece of advice for him regarding the direction the industry is moving - generally speaking, a lot of the middle-tier jobs like sys admins are getting automated out of the picture. Over time you will have the architects and engineers designing, building and automating and then technicians to do the manual grunt work.

Also, as he progresses in the field he should try to get into an organization where IT is revenue generating instead of being looked at as an expense. The former usually has all the funding whereas the latter gets whatever money is left over.

Lots of great info that I completely agree with in this post. A college degree isn't necessary, but it would be good.

Completely agreed about automation too.

Also, many/most companies, even though IT is necessary, it's expensive, so eats into the bottom line. As stated, if it makes money, that's a much better place to be.

[KFC911]

^^^^ (to Stealth's post) This too....

IMO, if you are really good in IT .... you control your own destiny. You may have to "fire" your employer a few times along the way .... but then you make even more $ .

BUT.... you have to have "IT" .... and love it.

It's like being paid to continue your education for 2-3 decades.

I loved it... until I didn't anymore

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

I suggest a career outside of IT, if comfortable or trainable with tools, plumbing and electrical. Difficult industry to automate.

And even more difficult to offshore.

My current company is actually doing quite well during this pandemic, but is taking this as an opportunity to move more work offshore. We've lost a few very senior-level-experienced people in the past couple of months, and they're being replaced with generic bodies in India; a couple of US-based teams were dissolved and re-constituted in India.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Oracle

if you're not curious about new technologies or you become obsolete in 10 years time.

s/10/5/g

[masraum]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ (to Stealth's post) This too....

IMO, if you are really good in IT .... you control your own destiny. You may have to "fire" your employer a few times along the way .... but then you make even more $ .

BUT.... you have to have "IT" .... and love it.

It's like being paid to continue your education for 2-3 decades.

I loved it... until I didn't anymore

Absolutely. It has been my experience that the fastest path to more money and experience is moving around. I'd say that 2-5 years is the longest that I'd expect to sit in one place, at least early in your career. Often, even making strides in one company may involve leaving that company for a period and then going back. I've known several folks that were getting the incremental yearly raises (small), but then left a company and went back a year or two later and were able to get hired back at a significant increase over their previous rate.

[KFC911]

^^^^ it was never about the $$$ for me though. After my first gig (contracting with IBM) was over... I knew what I wanted to do. I then sold my soul to two mega-banks, and then really cashed in for my last gig of 11 years.

So really three rodeos... 5/8/11 years...

When my last dept was outsourced (to HP/EDS back in '08), I said "adios" rather than continue on with the outsource provider (my choice)... the thrill was gone

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by 930addict

There's truth in this^^. I've been in IT for about 21 years. I started without a college degree building custom systems and doing both field and phone support (I had some background as I was a nerdy kid). As I gained experience and knowledge from reading books (I used to live at the Computer Literacy Bookshop in San Jose) I've had opportunities to build and manage networks, websites, client/server data driven applications, virtualized data centers and complete VDI solutions. Over time I became an expert in Windows technologies (AD, DHCP, DNS, SCCM, PKI, SQL, Powershell, Azure etc).

It wasn't until I started getting into the upper ranks that I decided I had to go back to school and finish my college degree as this was holding me back. A few years later I finished a BS in IT Security and Master's in Cybersecurity and Information Assurance. fast forward to now and I have about 1.5 years until I retire at 50. So the IT industry has been good to me. I plan on doing consulting work after I retire.

If your son is interested in Cybersecurity, Western Governors has a good Cybersecurity Program. It was recommended to me by a colleague and I was happy with it. Best of all it is very affordable.

While you don't need an Ivy league degree in this field, I think he would move up faster and have more opportunities presented to him with the degree. So he probably shouldn't wait as long as I did to get that out of the way.

One more piece of advice for him regarding the direction the industry is moving - generally speaking, a lot of the middle-tier jobs like sys admins are getting automated out of the picture. Over time you will have the architects and engineers designing, building and automating and then technicians to do the manual grunt work.

Also, as he progresses in the field he should try to get into an organization where IT is revenue generating instead of being looked at as an expense. The former usually has all the funding whereas the latter gets whatever money is left over.

The only issue with WGU is if you are not close to a large city. When I went there for the security program they wanted me to go to a city 4.5 hours away to take my tests. That and my mentor kept calling during work hours after being told that was not acceptable. The dean got mad at me until I explained why I was not answering her calls. They may have improved the testing sites by now, but something to keep in mind. My wife got her masters there so it works for some people.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

I've been doing IBM Enterprise Asset Management system implementations since I retired from Boeing in 2010.
I got my CMMI level 4 certification from Fujistu / Cornell. Next came being an AGILE scrum leader.

Your either a code monkey or a functional analyst.

I can't code SQL as well as needed, but I can talk business transformation by using enterprise level tools all day long.

Analyst = cyst on a IT directors ass

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Analyst = cyst on a IT directors ass

Probably.

Just saying with just short of 25 years at SOHIO/BP, IT peeps who are players and survivors are wicked smart. I was friends with several way higher level than me IT lifers and even directors. They saved my ass post the Amoco merger as I took the IT accounting controller job two weeks before it occurred. I have never shiet razor blades for 18 months straight until then or since.

That said, maybe OP's kid would not be into the love and tenderness I experienced. Maybe something approaching $50k across time in a Federal or State job?

My son worked in the computer repair department at Akron U during college. They fixed computers for the students and help desk stuff. They offered him a full time job. He declined and I wish he would not have.

[Deschodt]

Security is definitely the way to go at the moment... it's harder to offshore, like field support. Certifications are required there in general vs less so in other functions..

As a bonus, he gets to tell everyone in IT what to do and not have to do it himself, which is a sweet gig (from experience, everyone in IT is security's biatch)

That being said I am so sick of IT, it's pretty thankless in terms of hours, responsibilities, crazy short timelines for projects, project managers riding your a$$, blame ping pong, stress, but I suppose it depends on your function/manager/sector. Security again is very in demand and from what I can see if you like pointing fingers at people and make them do stuff, it's fun. There's some seriously cool tools these days for network access control or spying on employees ;-) Since I've been deploying those (for security), I would NEVER access work from my own computer, OMG....

[Geronimo]

I told him I would focus on security and cloud, as I think those are strong areas. Seems I was in the right pall park. I started for my Net+ and A+ toward my CCNA years ago when I thought about switching careers.... then the economy picked up and I stayed in Automotive.

He is trying to figure out the best education path now.