New Spoon

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

Here’sa comparison of my two 1911s. I guess I need a Government size one too.

I've never actually owned a Commander sized 1911. Just the full sized "Government" and the smallest, the "Officers'". Here are my current two, which will probably be the two I ride off into the sunset with. They have both proven to be "keepers" after playing with a lot of others. Full sized Colt, Officers' sized Kimber.

The pic doesn't capture their most notable difference - weight. The Colt is all steel, the Kimber has an aluminum frame. I bet it's half the weight of the Colt. You'll notice its finish is quite worn as well - its diminutive size and light weight mean it's the one most often carried.

[jyl]

Nice, Jeff.

I have shot Government size 1911s and like them. I find them soft-shooting, very mild recoil compared to the tiny, alloy carry guns firing +P 9mm. If/when I get a full size 1911, I’ll probably look for an all-steel model chambered for .38 Super or 9mm, for even lower recoil. I think the former used to be popular for some types of competition, so there should be some used ones around.

I bought the Detonics as a carry gun, but never carry it. Heavy, slightly finicky, and it’s worth too much. Someday I’ll offload it to a collector. The 442 is the carry gun now, eventually I’ll find the cheap G26 and the 442 will become the fishing vest gun.

But really, what I’m in the market for now is a shooter C96 Mauser with stock.

[Bill Douglas]

You wouldn't want this one as a carry gun. But it shoots very well. The frame is sringfield and the other parts are components selected by the gunsmith.

[jyl]

I used to mull over how you’d make the thinnest, lightest possible 45 with the lowest possible bore. Seems the gun needn’t be any thicker than the barrel. Use a gas system so you don’t need the mass of a slide, direct the extra gas (seems like lots of gas is not propelling the bullet when barrel lengths get short?) to counteract muzzle lift. Use something like the Luger’s toggle system to minimize rearward movement. Polymer is nice but carbon fiber would be stronger and stiffer.

[jyl]

Nice racegun, Bill. Do you usually have an optic?

[Bill Douglas]

Thanks.

Not me, but it looks like the previous guy did.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

Nice, Jeff.

I have shot Government size 1911s and like them. I find them soft-shooting, very mild recoil compared to the tiny, alloy carry guns firing +P 9mm. If/when I get a full size 1911, I’ll probably look for an all-steel model chambered for .38 Super or 9mm, for even lower recoil. I think the former used to be popular for some types of competition, so there should be some used ones around.

I bought the Detonics as a carry gun, but never carry it. Heavy, slightly finicky, and it’s worth too much. Someday I’ll offload it to a collector. The 442 is the carry gun now, eventually I’ll find the cheap G26 and the 442 will become the fishing vest gun.

But really, what I’m in the market for now is a shooter C96 Mauser with stock.

Yup, .38 Supers used to be quite popular with the IPSC - International Practical Shooting Conference - shooters. This was the game that Col. Jeff Cooper and friends invented in SoCal in the early 1960's, hoping to create a more "practical" course of pistol competition than the standard NRA "2700" bullseye game.

One of their criteria was that competitors use actual defensive arms and loads. No "bunny fart" bullseye loads - full power defensive loads. As such, they created a "power factor" that, unsurprisingly, favored the .45 ACP over the 9mm, .38 Special, and such. Center hits earned full value when accomplished with a "major" caliber, but only 80% when using a "minor" caliber.

Well, it didn't take long for the "gamesmen" to figure this one out. Introducing the dangerously over loaded .38 Super, in an effort to "make major" with a "minor" caliber. This is where the barrels with the integral feed ramps came from, that little appendage hanging down behind the chamber off the back. If you look at a standard barrel, the feed ramp leaves a bit of the case unsupported, which is fine with standard pressure loads. These .38 Supers were anything but, and regularly blew the unsupported bottoms out of their cases and the magazines right out the bottom of the gun, sometimes injuring the meathead shooter who had loaded it up that way.

So, in other words, a former IPSC gun may not be the one to buy. I, too, would love to have a .38 Super, but mine would have to be a really pretty Colt Royal Blue and polished like a mirror. Kinda 1930's style. That's when Colt introduced them, in an effort to provide the G-Men with a round that could penetrate the car bodies that were hiding gangsters and bank robbers inside.

Really interesting, and at times, checkered history on this one.

[jyl]

I was thinking of a 1911 in 38 Super used for bullseye. I had thought that some competitors would use 1911 pistols in 38 when competing in the “centerfire above .32” class, so as to maintain commonality with the 1911s in 45 they used in the “45” class?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRA_Precision_Pistol

For whatever reason, there seem to be plenty of 1911s in 38 Super, that aren’t IPSC raceguns.

Of course, I’d like either a gen-nu-wine Colt or . . . an SVI Infinity.

I used to shoot at an outdoor range with the same group of guys, who all seemed to have the same schedule as me, so we got to know each other. There was a doctor who always brought his SVI and, man, was that a bling gun. He was very good with it too.

[Rick Lee]

I had a Para P-12 for several years. I don't remember much about it other than it shot pretty well. I put a guide rod in it. I first heard about them when FBI Hostage Rescue gave the contract to ParaOrdnance around 1995. Para's reputation has ebbed and flowed over the last 25 yrs. A few yrs ago they were almost giving them away. But I think they're commanding ok prices these days. A local gun store has a lot of used ones for sale. I think someone had a big collection and traded them all in.

[Jeff Higgins]

Most guys actually only use two guns in this "three gun" competition, doing double duty with their 1911's in .45 ACP. The .38 caliber 1911's that were once popular were actually chambered in .38 Special, shooting 148 grain wadcutter ammo. Kind of a weird setup, and it had to be some kind of a trick to deal with the rims. That's fallen out of favor, though, with most guys just shooting light target wadcutters in the .45's for the "centerfire above .32" class.

And, yup, there do seem to be plenty of "standard" .38 Supers out there. I'm waiting for CZ USA / Colt to get up to speed so I can see what they are going to do. I would love it if they offer polished blued 1911's. We'll see. Rumor has it a blued Python is on the way, along with the reintroduction of the Anaconda. I would love a new Python as well, just to see how it stacks up against my late 1970's version. If it proves to be as good or better, the older one might go on the chopping block - I've grown to dislike its 6" barrel. I want a shorter one.

[jyl]

I’m sure no one really wants to know more about Para Ordnance but I like researching stuff.

paraordsys

[Jeff Higgins]

Why wouldn't we want to know more? I remember they made quite the splash when their double stack 1911 came out, and they were always known for the quality of their products. The fact that they were Canadian added to the interest. I've always wondered what happened to them. Please, keep researching - and sharing.

[911boost]

Like Jeff, my Kimber Ultra CDP is my most carried one, others have come and go and in the end I always go back to it. I have had it since the early 2000’s and it’s treated me very well and is worm is spots as well.

[Jim Bremner]

If California ever gets to be like Free America, I will buy a doubl stack 1911.

I'm faster hitting plates with a 1911 with 8 round mags than I am with a Glock 19 with 19 round magazines.

Put up 2 torso plates that require 2 rounds and 10 pie plates that take 1 round each. I will not miss with the 1911

The Glock ? Low and left misses for me.

My CZ Tacsport with 20 round magazines? Fastes times that I can run. Thankfully I spent tons of money during Freedom Week®

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

If California ever gets to be like Free America, I will buy a doubl stack 1911.

I'm faster hitting plates with a 1911 with 8 round mags than I am with a Glock 19 with 19 round magazines.

Put up 2 torso plates that require 2 rounds and 10 pie plates that take 1 round each. I will not miss with the 1911

The Glock ? Low and left misses for me.

My CZ Tacsport with 20 round magazines? Fastes times that I can run. Thankfully I spent tons of money during Freedom Week®

When I was doing a lot of range time, low and left was my most common issue with my G19. If I recall, it’s a trigger pull issue.

I always shot the best with my Luger.

[Jeff Higgins]

[flipper35]

We had a LEO at one of our get togethers that was all over that chart, assuming that chart is 2' diameter and set at 25 yards so he could actually hit it. Except the center. He would have never hit the center.

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

But its glocks and hipower s for me. Both high trigger weights

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

But its glocks and hipower s for me. Both high trigger weights

Tightening the grip too much to counter the heavy trigger?

[tabs]

Originally Posted by jyl

Here’sa comparison of my two 1911s. I guess I need a Government size one too.

Is your Detoniccs made in WA.