New Spoon

[tabs]

I don't need a Detonics, Commander szed 1911 nor a full sized one in either 38 super or 45.nor a python, cz compact or Shadow.

So what else have ya got...

[jyl]

Originally Posted by tabs

Is your Detoniccs made in WA.

Seattle.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

Seattle.

I had some friends who worked there. Detonics was actually in Eastgate, a suburb of Bellevue, just a couple of miles east of and across Lake Washington from Seattle proper. But I'm just picking nits there, and showing off some trivial, useless local knowledge.

[jyl]

That’s cool. I loved for a while in Kirkland not too far away.

They sure made a quality piece.

[Jeff Higgins]

Wow - so you know the area. I grew up in the Crossroads area of Bellevue, just up the hill from Lake Sammamish. Detonics was in the area just east of I-405 and north of I-90, by the old Humane Society building. I lived in the Totem Lake area of Kirkland for awhile, on the hill just above the hospital. Just after that, and right before I married, I lived on Rose Hill, between Kirkland and Redmond. The infamous "pig lady" was my neighbor. She had a bunch of Australian dingo dogs. A fire station now occupies her property.

And yes, Detonics was the schizz back in the day. Didn't they wind up making a version of the Auto Mag? I'm kind of fuzzy on all of that.

[HardDrive]

I owned a S&W 442. Never could get comfortable with a revolver for carry. Ended up with a Sig 938.

[jyl]

They made a .451 Detonics 1911. I’ve never seen one or known much about them, but they sound like cannons. Ballistics info here https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/24/detonics-story/

[jyl]

I like the 442 well enough, but the snubnose I’d really like is a blued steel S&W snubby from the 30s with the grip safety, like something Sam Spade might have carried. The Model 40.

[Bill Douglas]

Speaking of snubbies, this is a good trick photo with mirrors in this pic. Looks just like two.

[jyl]

What are gun laws in NZ like?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

They made a .451 Detonics 1911. I’ve never seen one or known much about them, but they sound like cannons. Ballistics info here https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/24/detonics-story/

I've never been a big fan of autoloaders, so I have never really paid all that much attention to the various developments that came along in that era. I do remember this one, though. And the .460 Rowland, .45 Winchester Magnum, the various Super Mags, and it seems like maybe one or two more. I think that in the end they all kind of faded away for various reasons. The most common complaint I remember hearing was just how hard they were on the guns, with cracking frames and other problems. Even Colt pulled their 10mm Delta Elite for awhile, and wound up redesigning something in it.

I guess at the end of the day, the old .45 ACP has proven to be all anyone needs in a defensive pistol round. Anything more seems to just add to recoil and noise, with no notable increase in effectiveness. None of these ever proved powerful enough as hunting rounds either, so they kind of occupied a "no man's land" between enough for self defense and not enough for hunting.

[jyl]

I get the cool factor of hand cannons but this is my next spoon (other than weirdo collector stuff and stuff to buy before its banned).

https://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Benelli-MP-90S-World-Cup__Benelli-spc-MP-90S-22.aspx

I handled one, didn't get to fire it, but did get to dry fire it. The trigger was incredible. You know those glass animals (deer, etc) that used to be sold in tourist shops when we were kids? How they sometimes had a tendril of excess glass sticking out, that you could break off with your little kid finger and it went "tink"? The trigger was like that.

I used to spend a lot of time at the range with my Pachmayer Bullseye box with the spotting scope on the flip up lid. Loved it but after my Luger lost its extractor I was stuck target shooting with my various carry type guns which is not optimal. I have always wanted a gen-nu-wine target gun, and there is an economy to be supported so I will do my patriotric duty!

[flipper35]

If I were to buy a hand spoon for white tail here I would get a S&W .460.

Otherwise I could use a pocket spoon. The 1911 is a lot to carry some days in the summer time.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by jyl

What are gun laws in NZ like?

They are not very friendly.

Handguns are for pistol club use (unless you are a cop/government man). And you need to turn up at the club and shoot at least a dozen times a year.

However you are allowed to buy anything as a collector. But not allowed to fire it. Some guys have full auto Uzis, anti aircraft guns, Browning M1 full auto machine guns (phew, they must go through some ammo with those!)

Since, what we call the Christchurch Shooting, we re not allowed semi auto rifles. Particularly AR15 type guns.

But once you get your entry level gun licence you can walk into a gun shop and buy and walk away with whatever you like. Schoolboys can buy a BMG .50 cal rifle if they so wish.

Shotguns are popular around here. I've got a Benneli with a legal longer magazine as my dogs and guns after rabbits type setup.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

They are not very friendly.

Handguns are for pistol club use (unless you are a cop/government man). And you need to turn up at the club and shoot at least a dozen times a year.

However you are allowed to buy anything as a collector. But not allowed to fire it. Some guys have full auto Uzis, anti aircraft guns, Browning M1 full auto machine guns (phew, they must go through some ammo with those!)

Since, what we call the Christchurch Shooting, we re not allowed semi auto rifles. Particularly AR15 type guns.

But once you get your entry level gun licence you can walk into a gun shop and buy and walk away with whatever you like. Schoolboys can buy a BMG .50 cal rifle if they so wish.

Shotguns are popular around here. I've got a Benneli with a legal longer magazine as my dogs and guns after rabbits type setup.

So
- no carry, concealed or open, of pistols? Unless LEO.
- can own most any pistol but it has to stay say home or at the pistol range?
- can own full auto as a collector, can be fully functional? Are you able to shoot them anywhere?
- I don’t understand the semi-auto rifle part. Could I buy a full auto M-16 as a collector? Is there anyway to buy a semi auto AR, AK, FAL? As a collector or otherwise?

[Bill Douglas]

So
- no carry, concealed or open, of pistols? Unless LEO.

Correct.

- can own most any pistol but it has to stay say home or at the pistol range?

Yup, strict rule.

- can own full auto as a collector, can be fully functional? Are you able to shoot them anywhere?

Nope. No shooting them. Fully functional. Although... I have heard that some individuals have fired them on farms or somewhere very private.

- I don’t understand the semi-auto rifle part. Could I buy a full auto M-16 as a collector? Is there anyway to buy a semi auto AR, AK, FAL? As a collector or otherwise?

As a collector, meaning you have a collector endorsement on your gun licence, you can. We have big gun auctions a few times a year with something like 1,800 lots being auctioned off. One of our main contributors here on Pelican Parts buys bit of stuff from it. And a big percentage of this stuff is collector only. Lugers Anti aircraft guns etc.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

So
- no carry, concealed or open, of pistols? Unless LEO.

Correct.

- can own most any pistol but it has to stay say home or at the pistol range?

Yup, strict rule.

- can own full auto as a collector, can be fully functional? Are you able to shoot them anywhere?

Nope. No shooting them. Fully functional. Although... I have heard that some individuals have fired them on farms or somewhere very private.

- I don’t understand the semi-auto rifle part. Could I buy a full auto M-16 as a collector? Is there anyway to buy a semi auto AR, AK, FAL? As a collector or otherwise?

As a collector, meaning you have a collector endorsement on your gun licence, you can. We have big gun auctions a few times a year with something like 1,800 lots being auctioned off. One of our main contributors here on Pelican Parts buys bit of stuff from it. And a big percentage of this stuff is collector only. Lugers Anti aircraft guns etc.

Got it - thanks!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flipper35

If I were to buy a hand spoon for white tail here I would get a S&W .460.

IMHO, that would be a mistake. That is far more gun than needed for any kind of hunting in the Lower 48. Those things are absolutely huge - somewhere around, or over 70 ounces, where something like a Model 29 .44 mag might go 50 ounces, for one with a really long barrel.

I fell into this "bigger is better" magnum revolver trap many years ago. Started with a Freedom Arms .454 Casull, then went up to a Hamilton Bowen modified Ruger Bisley in .475 Linebaugh. I eventually sold both. The blast and recoil were simply unbearable, even with proper hearing protection. Shooting them at game, while out hunting without ear protection, permanently damaged my hearing, I'm sure of it.

The .460 and .500 Smiths, on that ridiculously huge X frame, bring all of that blast and recoil to bear. And they add one more component to deal with - their weight. Both the Casull and Bisley were pretty normal sized large frame single actions, perhaps 40 to 50 ounces in weight. Easy to carry in a holster while hunting. That monstrous X frame is anything but, and a lot of guys sling them, just like a rifle. I actually do have a couple of hunting rifles that are lighter than those things...

And, in the end, we just don't need that kind of power. Any .44 or .45 caliber bullet of 240-255 grains driven at around 1,000 fps or so will shoot lengthwise through the biggest white tail you will ever see. I know - I've done it many times. You will note that this is even below what the .44 mag will do with full power loads - it will top 1,300 fps with a 250 grain bullet. But there is really no need to do even that. Interestingly, even Elmer Keith himself was entirely satisfied with his heavy .44 Special loads, driving 250 grain bullets to 1,100 fps. That was all he asked for out of S&W and Remington for the .44 mag, but they "knew better" and produced the more powerful load. He continued to use his heavy .44 Special loads, or a relatively "light" .44 mag load (by today's standards). He knew better.

So, again, just my opinion. I think you would get far more use and enjoyment out of a Model 29. Over a pound lighter, far, far cheaper ammo, and the versatility of using .44 Specials when you want. And all of the power you will ever need for white tails. Hell, I've killed elk with those "lighter" loads I described, and every single bullet has exited. More power only digs a deeper divot in the hillside behind them...

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I guess at the end of the day, the old .45 ACP has proven to be all anyone needs in a defensive pistol round. Anything more seems to just add to recoil and noise, with no notable increase in effectiveness. None of these ever proved powerful enough as hunting rounds either, so they kind of occupied a "no man's land" between enough for self defense and not enough for hunting.

Except bragging rights for having a BBQ gun.

(not mine)

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

IMHO, that would be a mistake. That is far more gun than needed for any kind of hunting in the Lower 48. Those things are absolutely huge - somewhere around, or over 70 ounces, where something like a Model 29 .44 mag might go 50 ounces, for one with a really long barrel.

I fell into this "bigger is better" magnum revolver trap many years ago. Started with a Freedom Arms .454 Casull, then went up to a Hamilton Bowen modified Ruger Bisley in .475 Linebaugh. I eventually sold both. The blast and recoil were simply unbearable, even with proper hearing protection. Shooting them at game, while out hunting without ear protection, permanently damaged my hearing, I'm sure of it.

The .460 and .500 Smiths, on that ridiculously huge X frame, bring all of that blast and recoil to bear. And they add one more component to deal with - their weight. Both the Casull and Bisley were pretty normal sized large frame single actions, perhaps 40 to 50 ounces in weight. Easy to carry in a holster while hunting. That monstrous X frame is anything but, and a lot of guys sling them, just like a rifle. I actually do have a couple of hunting rifles that are lighter than those things...

And, in the end, we just don't need that kind of power. Any .44 or .45 caliber bullet of 240-255 grains driven at around 1,000 fps or so will shoot lengthwise through the biggest white tail you will ever see. I know - I've done it many times. You will note that this is even below what the .44 mag will do with full power loads - it will top 1,300 fps with a 250 grain bullet. But there is really no need to do even that. Interestingly, even Elmer Keith himself was entirely satisfied with his heavy .44 Special loads, driving 250 grain bullets to 1,100 fps. That was all he asked for out of S&W and Remington for the .44 mag, but they "knew better" and produced the more powerful load. He continued to use his heavy .44 Special loads, or a relatively "light" .44 mag load (by today's standards). He knew better.

So, again, just my opinion. I think you would get far more use and enjoyment out of a Model 29. Over a pound lighter, far, far cheaper ammo, and the versatility of using .44 Specials when you want. And all of the power you will ever need for white tails. Hell, I've killed elk with those "lighter" loads I described, and every single bullet has exited. More power only digs a deeper divot in the hillside behind them...

Already have a Model 25, 8 3/8th barrel that I carry in the brush instead of a rifle where I might have to shoot over 15 yards at the most. I would get the .460 purely for bragging rights and it is one of the flattest shooting pistol cartridges out there. So there!

That said, 6-8 inch barrel on a .44 mag S&W you can shoot all day long and I find them very comfortable and accurate.