Natural Gas VS Propane

[mattdavis11]

I'm failing to understand why red-beard has things set up the way he does in his home.

The attic heats up the hot water, then he has another heater to heat up the water even hotter?

So you have in this order:

1) a water heater
2) the attic
3) a hot water heater

My water heater does just fine alone. Must be really cold water coming into your house.

I can't help with the rest, I have no meter, or propane tank.

[red-beard]

Hot water heaters are in the attic. The year round setting is for decently warm water. In the summer, the attic is so hot it heats the water heaters water above the gas setting. Free heating...

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Put an LNG storage system in your hood and get the neighbors on board,
Burden costs for distribution infrastructure in rural areas is the problem

[mattdavis11]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Hot water heaters are in the attic. The year round setting is for decently warm water. In the summer, the attic is so hot it heats the water heaters water above the gas setting. Free heating...

But if the water is already hot, why the need? To be honest, I never knew they sold hot water heaters. I'm being a smart ass, it's a water heater.

[plumb4u2]

I’m a little late to this thread but just so you know, you cannot convert your furnaces and water heater to propane. Manufacturers forbid it and do not sell conversion kits

[GH85Carrera]

It is astonishing to hear your base rate to be hooked up to natural gas. My gas bill arrived yesterday. For the honor of having an account, and a meter in my yard it cost me $33.35 per month. Add in the "franchise fee", and city tax and my grand total is $36.20 per month if I used no gas. Right now the only gas we use is for hot water, and cooking on the stove top. That was $4.83 for the last month.

I signed up for a program they offer that averages the bill over the year, and divides by 12 so I pay the same amount each month. It is $71 per month or $852 for the year, and that includes the insane February we had with a week of below zero temperatures, and the gas spot market going to insane levels. Bottom line my actual gas usage was $417.60 and the base rate for having a meter is $434.4 so my base service cost more than the gas I used.

It was really nice last winter to just stay warm and toasty in the house. We had no interruptions or problems except the ice and insane cold outside.

[porsche4life]

Man that seems like a lot of effort for the privilege of sitting in a cold house in the middle of a winter storm waiting for the guy in the truck to bring more propane. I agree with everyone, I’d be looking at how to get that gas usage below the threshold to get the bill down. Way less effort and wayyyy more convenient long term.

I grew up on a place with two 1000 gal tanks. It’s a nice alternative when there’s no gas line, but no way in hell would I switch from NG to propane!

[Dpmulvan]

Propane is a pain for me, you have to have a condensate pump to a drain. Propane gives off this sludge that constantly plugs up the pump. The condensate is nasty stuff that will strip paint right off the floor and make you Ill in a minute.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by plumb4u2

I’m a little late to this thread but just so you know, you cannot convert your furnaces and water heater to propane. Manufacturers forbid it and do not sell conversion kits

Wow, really? I had no idea. So he has to replace the water heater and furnace?

There must be some reason for that policy. I have no clue as to what.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Wow, really? I had no idea. So he has to replace the water heater and furnace?

There must be some reason for that policy. I have no clue as to what.

I wasn't aware either...from looking at a couple OEM sites, they do have conversions from propane to NG, but all strictly forbid NG to propane.

Especially strange since it's very common to convert NG dryers to propane. Perhaps the more gas required, the more unstable it becomes?

All I know is I have propane in my current house, and had NG is my old house and would NEVER convert to propane... I can see no advantages, yet several disadvantages.

[cabmandone]

Yes you can buy a propane conversion kit for a furnace but it'll be through a licensed dealer and the dealer will have to install it. Dealers won't take the liability risk of allowing a homeowner to convert. When converting you have to change the burner orifices, gas valve spring, and add a low pressure switch to the inlet side of the valve. You then have to get the gas pressure set which requires a gauge or manometer to read gas pressure.

I can't speak to water heaters because they sell those as LP or NG. But every furnace I've ever sold came from the factory as NG and was converted to LPG where necessary. Every stove I've ever owned since living in my house needed to be converted and included a kit inside the stove. Every clothes dryer... same thing.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by plumb4u2

I’m a little late to this thread but just so you know, you cannot convert your furnaces and water heater to propane. Manufacturers forbid it and do not sell conversion kits

Carrier/Bryant doesn't seem to forbid it. From Carrier's furnace spec sheet:

https://www.carrierenterprise.com/bryant-evolution-97-afue-120-000-btuh-modulating-variable-speed-multipoise-gas-furnace-987ma66120v24

"Certifications - This furnace is CSA (AGA and CGA) design certified for use with natural and propane gases. The furnace is factory-shipped for use with natural gas. A CSA listed gas conversion kit is required to convert furnace for use with propane gas. The efficiency is AHRI efficiency rating certified. This furnace meets California Air Quality Management District emission requirements."

[Bill Douglas]

You guys have it easy.

In New Zealand our government. In their infinite wisdom. Wants to stop the use of gas because it's bad for the environment. they want us to use electricity for everything. Except we don't have enough electricity which comes from our sun and hydro lakes. So we'll have to burn some coal to make enough. Argh. It pisses me off. The whole of Europe burns natural gas piped down from Russia to heat their homes and our dumb ass government wants to ban the stuff so she can say at United Nations that we are holier-than-thou and get the warm and fuzzies.

Gas is one of the few things we actually have, and don't have to buy it from overseas. Socialist government for ya.

[bkreigsr]

Not to hyjack, but I just got a small one-burner camp stove with a built in butane container supply. I also chose the optional hose for a quick propane cylinder conversion.
Which should I use to just boil water for tea on a 3-4 day track event ?
What is the typical life of a butane can ?
Do they both operate in the same temperature spectrum ?
Thanks
Bill K

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sewell94

Correct, The service costs are the issue.

I have a very good friend that is a long time customer service rep at East Ohio Gas/Dominion in Akron if that in any way could help you.

[wdfifteen]

^^
What size can? How much water?

[bkreigsr]

The butane cartridge comes in 8 oz cans.
Figure 3 qts of water/day.

[sewell94]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I have a very good friend that is a long time customer service rep at East Ohio Gas/Dominion in Akron if that in any way could help you.

I appreciate the offer, I am columbiana gas though. I got my latest gas bill, we are now 10 Ccm under the magic number for the previous year. Less than .5% under the number with major cut backs. I called and they said my yearly review isn't until Sept. I told them I took the pool heater off the system (which I actually did, kids are mad because the pools been very cold, and now they won't go in it), which should give the gas company a legit reason to review it now. Hopefully I'll hear back next week.

I'm working on a wood burner/boiler for the pool, and our hot water heater is due to be replaced so maybe doing something other than gas for that would be the ticket.