Being poor is very expensive.

[Bill Douglas]

Or buy a nice car. enjoy the car. And when you die, selling it will pay for the box and cremation.

When I die I'm getting cremated and my ashes tipped out on the beach. I've always loved the beach so it's the right place to end up. Pointless me having a grave. I can't imagine anyone, ever, in their right mind, bothering to visit it.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Many states have laws that once a cemetery is established the bodies can only be removed with the families permission. If they can't find the family, the bodies are not to be moved.

At Maxwell AFB off the end of one of the runways is a small 10 plot cemetery that had dates back into the late 1700s and early 1800s. It had a 1 foot tall fence and was not really maintained except to keep trees from growing in it. We asked about it and were told it was a slave grave, but who really knows. All the kids on bikes knew where it was and it was so close to the end of the runway it was a off limits area, but kids are invincible and no base cop was going to chase after us as we knew the trails in the area really well.

Again, I think you will see those laws change, as more $$$$ to build will increase the tax revenue and line some politicians and developers pockets. Our Shrine Temple is a prime example (even though it isn't a cemetery) when it was purchased and built, there was not much around it, we have 37 acres. Well, the area has exploded, lots of cluster living, older established neighborhoods now have to with the extra traffic, people, ect, plus right down the road is a large, very busy shopping area, along with more cluster homes and hotels. Truth is, this area is now very congested and a traffic nightmare. Well, someone thought it would be a good idea to sell our property and cash out, many of us are totally against it, the community doesn't want them to convert our temple and the 37 acres into MORE cluster living, but because of the revenue that some, including the taxes will provide (being a charity, we had only been taxed on the part of the property that produced income on top of the regular property tax. So now zoning charges are being rammed not only through the city, but the state capital as well, and there is major $$$$ pushing it, including former mayors.
To make sure that we didn't have a choice, our tax bill went way up while our rental income dropped to zero (and between $80 and a $100 Grand can really hurt) and clearly the local residents are being left out of the decisions that will directly affect their quality of life.
As someone who has been active in my local community for decades, I can tell you that intimate domain has been being used and abused more and more over the last 20 years, and not for the better.
Cities are bending for developers more and more (and remember, my family has been involved in the mortgage and land development business off and on my entire life) and it will do nothing but get worse. Say that you have a piece of property that has been in your family for generations, and you have it zoned agriculture and a developer wants it, has the juice with the city council to rezone, but you don't want to sell. Well, these days they will inform you that for "the good of the community " that you should sell and if you don't, and they change the zoning, now your tax bill may increase dramatically, but if you can afford it, then they may "need" a Right of Way for a proposed project, and will exhaust your assets in a lengthy legal battle where it may be decided that you should sell your property, generally for much less, at this point than the accessed value. So now, so the city can have more tax revenue you are screwed out of the property that has been in the family for generations.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Or buy a nice car. enjoy the car. And when you die, selling it will pay for the box and cremation.

That's a common misconception here. People say, "Oh, I own this $150k hovel free and clear. It will pay for everything." Really? You think a funeral home is going to keep your corpse in a fridge while your heirs squabble, clean out and then list the house for sale, and six mos. later squabble over who gets the net cash? Uh, no. If you can't write a check for $10k or produce a life insurance policy that is likely to pay, a funeral home is not going to do anything for you. They ain't a charity.

My folks are rich and, if they were to die on the same day, I'd eventually parachute out a rich man. BUT..... until the estate was settled, I'd have to quit my job, move to NJ, pay their bills and my bills and probably give up six mos. of my life in the process. And they'd be fine with cremation and getting scattered over the Bay. But settling their estate won't be a simple process.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Really? You think a funeral home is going to keep your corpse in a fridge.

No. LOL That's what banks are for. You should be able to do a funeral on a credit card, but if poor people don't have good credit card borrowing, they can ask the bank or even social welfare for some money until assets are sold.

My body would be fair rotten, even in the fridge, by the time my sisters figured out my finances.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by svandamme

I don't even understand why anybody poor would spend money in life, for the grave.
It's not like you'll be dead more comfortably in a fancy grave then in a paupers grave.

hell, put me in a cardboard box and straight into an incinerator , I really don't care.
I have better uses for my money : To Live.

Your grave is not for you, it's for those left behind.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

Your grave is not for you, it's for those left behind.

well, let them pay for it !

My entire estate will go to the orphanage I volunteer for, and the Red Cross.
Nobody I leave behind cares for me anyway

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Why would anyone sell final expense life insurance to poor people? Seems predatory at best.

[cabmandone]

What we should be doing is just letting them die without any consideration given to covering any costs. That way the state can take care of everything!

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

I can tell you that intimate domain has been being used and abused more and more over the last 20 years, and not for the better.

Don't you dare use and abuse my intimate domain!
My girlfriend, on the other hand...

[cabmandone]

Is that where the woman claims ownership of your ummm... "stuff"
And I think that's called "marriage" isn't it?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Or buy a nice car. enjoy the car. And when you die, selling it will pay for the box and cremation.

When I die I'm getting cremated and my ashes tipped out on the beach. I've always loved the beach so it's the right place to end up. Pointless me having a grave. I can't imagine anyone, ever, in their right mind, bothering to visit it.

Just so you know, there's generally a fair amount of "ashes" left from an adult. And on top of that, the ashes usually include larger chunks of bone.

If you get dumped on the beach, I think folks would notice. Maybe in the surf would be better.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Why would anyone sell final expense life insurance to poor people? Seems predatory at best.

Why would people sell McDonalds to fat people.

Why would people sell alcohol to drunks.

Why would people sell cigarettes or tobacco products to anyone?


Based on what Rick has posted, yes, there are a bunch of predatory folks doing what he does. The difference is that Rick is independent and not predatory and doing his best to put the folks that want it is the best position possible. He's, in many cases, fixing the issue after someone predatory has done their thing.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

Your grave is not for you, it's for those left behind.

Some folks really feel like their body needs to remain intact and buried. I've never understood it myself.

The funeral is definitely for those left behind. The grave, probably mostly, but not entirely. Some folks feel really strongly about being buried.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Why would anyone sell final expense life insurance to poor people? Seems predatory at best.

I kinda feel the same way, but if Rick's anecdotes are correct (and I believe they are) there sure seem to be a lot of folks 'filling out the cards' and willing to make the monthly.

I haven't walked in their shoes, so I don't understand the reason a nice burial at little cost to their loved ones is a big anxiety for someone who never had the same anxiety about saving some money every month so that eventually a decent burial would be a small portion of their final estate.

I expect it has to do with how we as a nation deal with poverty. We give people fish, but we don't teach them how to fish.

[Rick Lee]

I've never cold called once in this job. I have accidentally gone to the wrong address a few times, asked for the wrong person and they still invited me in and I closed them. Yes, really. However, 100% of my appointments are set from lead cards these folks mail in. Now, they may not always understand what the card is about. After all, a lot of the messes I fix are due to people not reading everything they sign up for. But there's nothing predatory about calling a phone number someone has handwritten on a card and mailed in, then they agree to an appt. and often are very happy to see me and see if I can fix their mess. It ain't predatory because someone doesn't read their paperwork, though I explain things ad nauseam and often go back to walk them through their paperwork if I sell them a policy.

Let's see, what messes did I fix yesterday? A 74 yr. old man set an appt to see if I could beat the policy he had. He swore it was $100k whole life and he was paying $81/mo. for it. When he brought out the paperwork, it turns out it was a 10 yr. term policy and expires in four more years. So he'll go from $100k coverage to $0. No wonder that agent isn't returning his calls. Unfortunately, he had triple bypass surgery six mos. ago, so I couldn't help him.

First appt. was a guy who thought I was there for Medicare. When I explained final expense insurance, he showed me the policy he had. It was another one of those that requires him to document he's been tobacco-free for a year by the end of year three. He had never read it. So I showed it to him. He was already in year three and had not stopped smoking. I replaced that one, got him $4k more coverage for the same price and he can keep smoking. Or, if he quits, once it's been a year, I can rewrite him for a lower price or more coverage. He had to stop himself from hugging me, thanked me so profusely and said he was so happy he had met me.

Next one was a woman who had three ancient policies. They looked like the Dead Sea Scrolls or parchment paper. I combined them into one policy for a slight increase in price, but she's getting $2800 cash back. And her kids will only have one death claim instead of three to file.

It's pretty rare that I run into someone who hasn't made a mess of their insurance, which usually makes my job easy. All I have to do is show them what's going to happen, if it hasn't already, and convince them I can fix it. If I can't, as in the man's case above with the $100k term policy, I walk away.

[Rick Lee]

Another one yesterday was a super nice woman in Section 8 housing. Her place was in the ghetto, but it was well decorated and spotless. She said the rent was $1100, but she only pays $276. Her total income is from SS and it's $1000/mo. She had a horrible policy she bought through AARP years ago (BTW, that's the worst insurance you can buy), wanted more coverage. But she had lupus, a recent heart stent implanted, kidney disease and didn't have a bank account. She lives on the Direct Express card. Couldn't help her, told her to keep what she had and I had to walk away.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

I see waste in having a hot water heater, fintstone. Do you have two to heat it up a bit hotter?

I'm just jabbing at you. I'd love to have a house with more than one water heater.

Carry on.

Is this a pet peeve of yours?

And I actually have 2 in series. So one is a Water Heater and the other truly is a Hot Water Heater...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

I kinda feel the same way, but if Rick's anecdotes are correct (and I believe they are) there sure seem to be a lot of folks 'filling out the cards' and willing to make the monthly.

I haven't walked in their shoes, so I don't understand the reason a nice burial at little cost to their loved ones is a big anxiety for someone who never had the same anxiety about saving some money every month so that eventually a decent burial would be a small portion of their final estate.

I expect it has to do with how we as a nation deal with poverty. We give people fish, but we don't teach them how to fish.

I don't think there's any easier dupe than a poor old person.

Poverty is all about cycles. People learn how to be poor and then teach their children.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Give a person a fish and you'll feed them for a day.

Teach a person how to fish and they'll spend the money on tattoos.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day

Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...

[jhynesrockmtn]

A lot of folks "budget" based on what payment they can afford for a car, rent, etc. They usually are wrong and when their income changes they are stuck. Ignorant people make new ones and the problem persists. My young (early 20's) niece just had a baby. Her idiot boyfriend makes minimum wage at McD's. She was working as a receptionist at an insurance company. She wonders why they can't buy a house while they watch helplessly as their rent increases. Crappy credit, no good job history, make very little $, etc. They are the last people in my family that should have reproduced but they did. I'm sure my sister will end up at least taking care of the kid part time if not something more serious when things fall apart.