There is never live ammo with bullets on set, only blanks and dummies. Blanks will be color coded for the size of the load. Dummies have a bullet but also have a spent primer and a B-B that rattles in the shell to prove to the actor that it is indeed a dummy round.

As I've said before, the only time a "hot" gun is used is for the actual filming of the scene. No rehearsals, no "working out the choreography", no nothing.

This is simply due to a very inexperienced armorer who shouldn't have been anywhere near a movie set much less weapons.

Look at it like rebuilding your Porsche engine.

You film with a Hollywood crew = Supertec Performance (free plug for Henry)

You film on location with a local non-union crew = Motormeister

As simple as that.

I’m starting to wonder if the armorer was even present when the gun was picked off the cart and handed to Baldwin.

We’ve gotten lots of details on this incident but some of the details conflict with others, so we probably don’t know half of what really took place.

Somebody, I think Craigster, said rumor has it she hadn't come back from lunch break yet.

That’s the understanding. That’s why the AD was playing “armorer”.

If someone hands me a gun and says "hot gun", I'm going to treat it accordingly. This happens all of the time when I'm out shooting with my sons or other shooting buddies. "Here, I've loaded it for you, go ahead and try it out." And this is where some good natured hijinks might occur, like slipping a full house 300 grain .44 magnum load in a cylinder otherwise loaded with mild .44 Special plinking loads. Good clean fun for the "big kids" playing with guns. And entirely safe, because the guy holding the gun knows it is going to fire. He just doesn't always know what...

If someone hands me a gun and says "cold gun", you can bet your ass I'm going to check. Each and every time, without fail. There is not a firearm made that cannot be easily checked, without having to take it apart. You check it the same way the other guy might have loaded it. This is just so damn easy, so damn basic, and so damn important. And, yes, this includes cap and ball guns - the caps are eminently visible. If it's capped, it's "hot". Period. Don't point it at someone, cock it, and pull the trigger.

If someone hands me a gun and says "it's full of blanks", you can also bet your ass I'm going to check. I will remove each and every "blank" from that gun and inspect it to verify. Doing so will eat up all of 30 seconds of my day. And it could save someone's life.

The notion that someone else is responsible for the condition of the gun in your hands is absolutely ludicrous. And quite deadly, as we have seen from this incident (and apparently others that have occurred on movie and television sets).

The notion that actors handling firearms do not have to be trained in the manual of arms for the firearms they are filming with is equally ludicrous. It smacks of Hollywood arrogance, elitism, and aloofness. It takes literally five minutes or less to run someone through the operation and safety protocols of a firearm that is new and unfamiliar to them. Anyone who is unwilling to take that five minutes should simply never be allowed to touch that particular firearm for any reason.

This is simple stuff, folks. And it saves lives. Rules for firearms are necessarily different than they are for other artifacts of modern living, and for good reason. The rules are simple, but they are absolute. Anyone unwilling to learn and follow them at all times, under any circumstances, should not be allowed to handle firearms. Period.

This is where you lose me. We don't do "good natured hijinks" with weapons on set. And we don't even have live ammo (except in this instance/ avoidable accident). That's why we trust the Armorer/ Prop Master.

Maybe there should be two people checking?

Maybe some day we'll actually find out who screwed up and whose responsible for what and what changes need to be made.

I wonder what it's like starring in your own real life nightmare. Considering Baldwin's prior conduct through the years, Ill bet he wakes up and thinks, 'Szhit, I'm still alive.' Plus there's gotta be a whole lotta anger and regret for what seemed not long ago to be simple decisions in everyday life.

Again, whether you like it or not, the actor DOES NOT get to fiddle with the gun. Too many variables and loss of chain-of-custody/chain-of-command.

Do you want actors to be able to adjust or add to pyrotechnics?

Yep. I'm not that familiar with AB's antics other than whispers that I've learned in the past few days. No matter how big a dick he might be, I wouldn't wish this on him. I suspect this is going to haunt him the rest of his days.

Sometimes the Armorer will have an assistant but the buck still stops with the Armorer. He (or her in this instance) are paid to keep the weapons and most of all, the set, safe.

If I even bring an oxygen tank on set, I have to notify production and they will hire a Fire Marshall (at a few $$$$ an hour) to just stand by. That's how much safety is practiced in Hollywood. Other locations not so much.

Look, this is a big deal. it will change how things are done in the industry and all due to some underage, inexperienced skank (yeah, i said it) dropped the ball and took someone's life. Because producers (including Alec Baldwin) tried to save a buck. They gambled and lost.

And if I did some "good natured hijinks" on set and handed "Johnny newbie actor" a weapon and told him it was a 1/4 load and really put in a full load blank, it wouldn't be laughter and guffaws while I "high fived" the director.

I would be fired on the spot, banned from any production through that studio and probably kicked out of the union and lose all pension and benefits.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1635207722.jpg

Yeah. This is where I get it. Movie sets are an alternate reality. Jeff, I respect your viewpoint, and in the "real world" its entirely where its at. But actors aren't trained in firearms, and that's not necessarily their fault. There is a system around them that they rely upon that is designed to protect the entire cast and crew. It failed here, whether it was because the armorer wasn't back from lunch or whatever. It sounds to me from what we know for now that there was a lack of respect for the system on set, as Craig points out, Motormeister stuff. All of the roles are respected for a reason, and if the AD hands the talent a gun, someone is wrong. Baldwin maybe shouldn't have accepted a gun from the AD . The AD certainly shouldn't have handed him one. But to say that the flaw was that he didn't check the gun is pointing at the wrong mistake.
If he made an error , it was "who the f are you handing me a gun?"

Craig and Hugh- did Alec screw up by pointing the "cold" gun at people? My understanding he was rehearsing a cross draw. I can't believe one can do that without someone being in the gun's path along the way.

Is it a big no-no to pull the trigger on a "cold" gun? Basically, did Alec break any known standards as an actor here? There was talk of this gun going off twice before the fatal incident. Either it's true or perhaps leaked out to allow Alec an excuse to say he didn't pull the trigger. If a false leak, I don't think it'll stand under oath.

Did Alec make a big mistake by accepting the "cold" gun from anyone other than the armorer?

Well I don't think it is. It is my understanding that the guns are not pointed at people? The camera angle makes it look they are. I also to have understood this was rehersal?

Maybe Hugh or Craigster can clarify?

Hmm... now you have kind of lost me... Do you understand what I'm describing?

We hand a guy a gun that he knows is loaded (because we told him it is), fully expecting him to shoot it (that's why we handed it to him in the first place). It just has a different load in it than he expects. Are insinuating that this is in any way unsafe, or irresponsible? What do you mean by "this is where you lose me"?

Another common trick we play on one another is to leave one or more chambers in a revolver cylinder empty. Nothing highlights a flinch like dropping the hammer on what is expected to be a live chamber, only to find out it is not. And, really, in the end, this is not "horseplay". It serves as a valuable training tool when we are trying to overcome a flinch. We actually ask each other to do this. Handgun instructors will often do this with students as a very effective means to demonstrate that they are flinching.

No, she did not. Alec Baldwin took someone's life.

If nothing else, I guess, this thread has served to educate me regarding the very dangerous, completely irresponsible approach to firearms handling endemic to your industry. You not only ignore the most basic, most important firearms safety rules, you deny they are even practicable in your "alternate reality". Your attitudes kill people. These rules never change. For anyone. Anywhere. Under any circumstances.

We don't play "tricks" on set with firearms. In case you haven't noticed, actors and studio people tend to be very "anti gun". We try and make it very smooth and easy when filming scenes with weapons.

In fact, "hot" weapons are used on set in less than 10% of scenes in a weapons heavy film.

I'm not there to make sure some actor knows how to handle a weapon in "real life". They don't like them, don't own them, maybe even march against them. They are there to do a job firing a weapon that usually doesn't go "Bang!". When it does, I make sure they are safe. That's my job.