I agree with all of the general gun safety comments from Jeff and others. I took a GS class in about 5th grade in preparation for a hunting trip and the lessons have stuck with me throughout my life.

There is no such thing as an unloaded gun, from a GS perspective. And never, ever point a gun at a human being unless you are preparing to shoot them. I've never pointed a gun at a person in my life.

That said, the gun safety record for motion picture and television production is astoundingly good. Making movies with prop guns is an exceedingly safe endeavor, based on the numbers. Going to a gun range is much more dangerous. I've been to several ranges in different states and never once, ever, was I instructed on gun safety or supervised while handling my guns. You pay the fee, they give you your lane or place along the bench to shoot and off you go. I could turn and murder the guys next to me if I was a psycho. I'm actually surprised that doesn't happen more often with how freewheeling and accessible guns are in this country.

I get the feeling Baldwin wasn’t aiming at the woman. He may not have even been looking at her. If he was practicing his quick crossdraw with what he thought was an unloaded pistol, it seems to me muzzle sweep would have been enormous. I’m not sure how many people witnessed the incident but a very, very detailed description of what actually happened would shed a lot of light on it.

I'd bet they have the whole thing on video.

It would be nice if the FBI could pull fingerprints off of the 3 cartridges.

Not necessarily, if it was just a rehearsal.

Saw a small part of an interview with the investigators....
Looking close at the possibility of the live ammo being placed there intentionally.

switched ammo?
more like a lawyer weasel trying to shift the blame/spotlight ....... SOP.

No one I know every gave the "gun safety in movies" issue a second thought and, after Craig and Hughes posts, it is pretty clear that if the processes, protocols and rules are followed there is a reason why: Accidents are rare, extremely so.

I have a gun range on my farm. Whenever we have more than one person shooting, I run the range, or my son does, with one exception.

I never let anyone I do not know well and trust shoot solo.

Everyone knows the rules and follows them...this appears not to be the case on AB's set, but the facts will emerge.

Quick question: anyone count how many times Jeff Higgins has stated that it is Baldwins fault for not following proper safety?

This cannot be overstated.

Guys like you have followed the typical PPOT/PARF path of trying your level best to come up with what you consider to be clever reasons why it is not. Like far too may threads on this forum (and across the internet in general), those who know the least have the most to say. Like you.

There is only one person ultimately responsible for this horrible situation.

The individual who brought the live rounds onto the set. Period.

Perhaps others (armorer, AD, prop master, AB included) could have discovered the live rounds and/or prevented the accident by following the procedures/policies advocated by Mr. Higgins........perhaps not. It has been well established that accidental shootings can happen no matter what maximum level of safety procedures are in practice when live rounds are part of the picture.

No live rounds......no death on this set.

What about the person who put the live round in the gun, L8? No accountability there? How about the person whose sole job is to make sure there are no live rounds in any guns on set? No negligence there, either? How about the two persons not authorized to handle guns yet handled them anyway? Same question.

Of course the person who brought the live ammo in set has some responsibility. But all the responsibility is not on that single person. Period? Not quite.

Sure....there are some on set who could bear some accountability for contributory negligence......but again, without the presence of the live rounds.....it's a non-event.

No live rounds......no death on set.

So this isn't the be all and end all of the matter?

"There is only one person ultimately responsible for this horrible situation.

The individual who brought the live rounds onto the set. Period."

Had the armorer cleared the all weapons, as was her assigned duty, no death on set.

If you want to blame someone besides the person who brought the live rounds to the set, then go for it. Most accidents are a cumulation of small incidents that degrade into the final event.

But, if you want to identify the root cause, it's the presence of live rounds on a set where they were banned by generations of industry safety protocols and procedures.

How many times have "bad guys" held a prop gun to a hostages head and pulled the trigger, or actors portraying suicidal characters have ended it all with a self-inflicted gun shot? We all want realism in our movies. The actors, directors, crew, are all working in an environment where live rounds are prohibited. As they should be.

We agree L8. But the blame should not, as you seem to be saying, lie solely with whomever brought the live ammo on set.

Multiple people screwed up.

Lets be clear on somethings.
-I had memorized Jeff Coopers laws before I ever pulled a trigger.
-I am not disputing those laws.
-Unfortunately, we don't live in a simple world where everything can be boiled down to simple answers. There are experts in the industry in this thread who state there are other factors mandated by the industry. Would it be great if every actor had extensive training? Sure. Maybe it should be that way. Unfortunately that is not how it is at this time.
-Repeating your opinion in the same thread over and over doesn't make any more true nor does it convince anyone more than it did the first 50 times (not a literal number but it makes the point).
-Insulting everyone who disagrees with you by telling them they are ignorant does not strengthen your opinion nor does it endear anyone to consider your opinion more than before.
-My point is that I wanted to hope that in a humorous way you would get the hint.
-Lets agree that the shooting is a tragedy, someone needs to be accountable, and that guns don't kill people, people without proper safety (or bad intent) kill people.
Anyone who disagrees with me is a poopy head.

To lighten up the mood a little, since the holidays are coming soon and Wallyworld already has trees up for sale, if anyone wants to know what I'd like as a gift:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1636291441.jpg
(I'd rather have an AR-10 but I couldn't find a fun pic with one)

I think Jeff is so adamant not because people disagree, but rather because this example of ignoring the basic rules of gun safety is going to be used to infringe the rights of people who do practice gun safety.

Maybe the answer is that there are layers of guilt. Consider liability vs responsibility. IMHO everyone is responsible for safety as well as the tragic accident, but liability lies with whomever brought those live rounds onto the set as well as the armorer.

We all know there are varying degrees of culpability regarding civil and criminal law. My questions are, ‘Is bringing live ammo on to a movie set unlawful? Is the act of the AD handing a firearm to an actor unlawful?, Is the incompetence of the designated armorer criminal?’

These questions, IMO, boil down to whether or not the ultimate responsibility lies with the person who pulled the trigger and is that negligence civil, criminal, both or neither? It seems to me, it is easier to escape criminal liability than civil.

So we’ll see who has the best lawyers.