80% build - complexity, time, reliability, cost, etc....

[masraum]

Teach me about 80% builds.

I've heard it said that it's not that hard. What sort of tools are required? What sort of precision?

How does the cost compare to buying a decent spoon retail? What would a first time build cost, and how much of that would be tools or other items not included in the price of the finished product?

I'm comfortable and confident in all things mechanical, so I'm not really concerned about the capability of finishing the project.

My goal would be to have something reliable and of good quality. Is this one of those things where building it yourself is going to cost twice as much as buying something retail, and if so is the quality going to be as good or better?

How long does it take on average?

Give me a rundown of the whole thing.

[Jeff Higgins]

I had to build over 80% of this...



Not for the feint of heart...

[mjohnson]

We did it as a social thing with a few of us from work - shelled out for the appropriate jigs and tooling, as well as a trim router. Even sharing the tooling costs between five of us it was more than twice that of one of the blemished stripped lowers at PSA.

It was amusing but I think unless something changes dramatically I'll just go purchase a numbered lower and get on with life. It will make an interesting companion for my 1971 (?) Colt AR-15 though.

Life got weird and I haven't assembled it yet. I have a PSA upper and parts kit waiting...

Can't comment on fab time - I dabbled at it over a week or so but I bet it's an hour or two of chip-making now that I've done it once.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by mjohnson

We did it as a social thing with a few of us from work - shelled out for the appropriate jigs and tooling, as well as a trim router. Even sharing the tooling costs between five of us it was more than twice that of one of the blemished stripped lowers at PSA.

It was amusing but I think unless something changes dramatically I'll just go purchase a numbered lower and get on with life. It will make an interesting companion for my 1971 (?) Colt AR-15 though.

Life got weird and I haven't assembled it yet. I have a PSA upper and parts kit waiting...

Can't comment on fab time - I dabbled at it over a week or so but I bet it's an hour or two of chip-making now that I've done it once.

That's pretty much what I hear from my shooting buddies who have done this. Costs more than to just buy one finished. Fun project, learning experience, best if several go in on the tooling together, etc. I do know one guy who does this as a hobby, with his tooling costs amortized over many builds, and he still has not "broken even". That's not what he's after, though. Neither is this whole "ghost gun" b.s. - he's just having fun.

[masraum]

That's kind of what I was expecting. Yes, you get to build it exactly like you want it, but it's also going to be more expensive, and from the sounds of it, substantially more expensive.

I know at one time you could build a decent, budget computer how you wanted, cheaper than you could buy an inexpensive computer. I don't think that's been the case for a long time, at least, not on the low end.

[Arizona_928]

I like the parts kit instead of the ar builds. Real building. Real tooling. More fab. More unique spoons. Prices are insane now, but 10 years ago they were very doable.

I think the best one can go now is a cetme from price point for rifle, and a glizzy for hand spoon.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by masraum

That's kind of what I was expecting. Yes, you get to build it exactly like you want it, but it's also going to be more expensive, and from the sounds of it, substantially more expensive.

I know at one time you could build a decent, budget computer how you wanted, cheaper than you could buy an inexpensive computer. I don't think that's been the case for a long time, at least, not on the low end.

I have not built an 80% lower. I bought an AK "80 kit" which is really just a piece of sheet metal that needs to be folded into the right shape. I do have a metal brake bending tool. But I just haven't had the inclination to fold it. The "hard" part seems to be the rivets, since you need steel ones, not flimsy aluminum ones. I did see one build that used flat heat bolts and nuts.

I have assembled an AR-15 lower receiver from a finished receiver. Not too bad. Just make sure you are in a place to find the springs that fly away...

I like the AR platform, the inline barrel to stock setup. And the fact that you can change calibers (within reason) with just a change of the upper.

[masraum]

Seems like it makes more sense to purchase retail unless you just want to do your own build or have something very specific that you want and can't find.

[Solamar]

Are you only asking about AR 80% builds?

I've built both, AR and 1911, the AR was very simple to build, wound up costing about what I could buy one for, but I built it with the exact parts I wanted. Great shooter.

The 1911 was a wonderful project. I chose top of the line parts which almost all required hand fitting. I took my time and learned allot about real gunsmithing. I believe I ended up with a 1911 that would cost several thousand more than I spent. It is flat out the most accurate handgun I own (ok, not including my match 22 pistol).

I definitely recommend the 1911 project.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Solamar

Are you only asking about AR 80% builds?

I've built both, AR and 1911, the AR was very simple to build, wound up costing about what I could buy one for, but I built it with the exact parts I wanted. Great shooter.

The 1911 was a wonderful project. I chose top of the line parts which almost all required hand fitting. I took time and learned allot about real gunsmithing. I believe I ended up with a 1911 that would cost several thousand more than I spent. It is flat out the most accurate handgun I own (ok, not including my match 22 pistol).

I definitely recommend the 1911 project.

I was thinking more along the AR line than the 1911 line. Good info.

What about the purchase of tools?

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by masraum

What about the purchase of tools?

I think that, IIRC, our little group got them from 80% Arms - the same place that sourced the "uncut" lowers.

But doncha know - the cool kids are 3d-printing parts now. That project will go over great the local STEM/Makerspace!

[Solamar]

Originally Posted by masraum

I was thinking more along the AR line than the 1911 line. Good info.

What about the purchase of tools?

I don't think I bought any tools for the AR. Good friend with a CNC mill, jig up the 80% and press start 😉.

The 1911 frame jig was 200ish with tooling, a few other filing jigs and stone kits were required, probably 400 total. Sold them all when complete for about what I paid for them. Very rewarding project.

[Rick Lee]

I've done several Poly80 Glock clone builds. They can be done in under 30 min. with a Dremel.