Decent spoon?

[Por_sha911]

When I first decided to get a shotgun for home defense, I came to the conclusion that the shorter the barrel, the easier to maneuver around the house. I took a long look at the Mossberg Shockwave until I cam to realize that it would be a handful after the first shot. I ruled it out and went with an 18" barrel pump. I'm sure there are those who would have no problem with that style of shotgun but, as a wise philosopher once said, " A man has got to know his limitations"

[Jim Bremner]

I'm not a fan of a shotgun or a revolver

So, yes. The shotgun is a one shot person eraser that's if you hit your target. It's not point and spray 9 pellets covers the target. If you do buy a shotgun test it out on a piece of cardboard at 5'. 10'. 15' 20' you'll see that the spread is smaller than you think

The other negatives are slow to reload, it's length and for the guys pushing a pump shotgun, I've trained a few people with them and have seen double feed jams and short stroke jams. They are incredible in what they do. I don't own one right now.

For the revoler? Double action triggers are not for everyone. Add in zero recoil mitigation and not easy to reload.

Magazine fed semi auto pistols loaded in 9mm whit defensive ammo. Try a CZ P01, Sig 226, Glock 19 and a few others. See what works best for you.

Pay a professional instructor for a few lessons. But a good safe & bolt it dow.

If there's ever an intruder and you have the chance to engage or flee. Just slip out the back jack.

Don't go hunting in the house for them. It's not worth it. If you come home and they're in your house call the cops. Wait to have guys with bullet resistant vests to clear your house.

My two cents.

[Rick Lee]

Just switched bedside guns to a P220.

[jyl]

What do we think about lights on a home defense pistol?

Seems like a good thing but I have no real knowledge.

I don’t have a pistol with a rail, so would have to get one.

[Rick Lee]

There are lights that clip onto the trigger guard and require no rail.

[jyl]

I’ve also found a clamp on rail for the Gen 1 Glock 19. Have had this thing since 1984, feel very comfy with it.

Light, light+laser, laser? What should I look for?

[Rick Lee]

Anything newer than a Gen 2 Glock will have a rail. And IMHO, Glock trigger guards are a little small for clamping on a light. So use the rail. SIGs and HKs tend to have the biggest trigger guards. HKs have proprietary rails, so you either have to buy an adapter or an HK-specific rail light.

The O-light in my photo has a 900 lumen light and a green laser, which can be tuned for windage and elevation with an Allen wrench. I co-witness it to the night sights at 25'. There is a three-way switch for light only, laser only and light and laser. And then the two thumb buttons can make the light flicker like a strobe with or without the laser. Very cool toy.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I'm not a fan of a shotgun or a revolver

You guys know I'm a huge fan of revolvers. Shotguns as a second line, if you can get to them. We've covered the issues surrounding that. Dogs help.

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

So, yes. The shotgun is a one shot person eraser that's if you hit your target. It's not point and spray 9 pellets covers the target. If you do buy a shotgun test it out on a piece of cardboard at 5'. 10'. 15' 20' you'll see that the spread is smaller than you think.

Exactly. In the house, they have to be "aimed". You're lucky if the pattern is as big as your fist across the living room.

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

The other negatives are slow to reload, it's length and for the guys pushing a pump shotgun, I've trained a few people with them and have seen double feed jams and short stroke jams. They are incredible in what they do. I don't own one right now.

With an ample magazine and the afore mentioned short shells, it would be a very, very bad day if one actually had to reload.

But, yes, anything that has to be manually cycled has a very real concern with failure to cycle. I watched a guy empty his lever gun on a trophy book mulie one time. Except he never pulled the trigger. A magazine full of live rounds on the ground, as the buck ran away unscathed.

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

For the revoler? Double action triggers are not for everyone. Add in zero recoil mitigation and not easy to reload.

Double action, or more properly "trigger cocking" makes it seem like double actions suck. But, only on the range, when other people are watching. In the home, at arm's length, no one cares if your groups open up because of it.

Yes, they are slow to reload. But so is a semi-auto if you didn't remember to grab another mag. And who does that in a home defense scenario? If you run dry, it's over with either a semi auto or a revolver.

Recoil mitigation? I think, for "punch" delivered, that semi-autos seem to recoil more than revolvers. If not, the cycling of the slide tends to intimidate novices more so than outright recoil.

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

Magazine fed semi auto pistols loaded in 9mm whit defensive ammo. Try a CZ P01, Sig 226, Glock 19 and a few others. See what works best for you.

Very effective, no doubt. But, well, more to do than any double action revolver with which we can just "point and click".

Pay a professional instructor for a few lessons. But a good safe & bolt it dow.

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

If there's ever an intruder and you have the chance to engage or flee. Just slip out the back jack.

"The best way to never lose a gunfight is to never get into one." Absolutely. Decide if it's worth defending. Most things are not. People are. Act accordingly.

Don't go hunting in the house for them. It's not worth it. If you come home and they're in your house call the cops. Wait to have guys with bullet resistant vests to clear your house.

My two cents.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by jyl

What do we think about lights on a home defense pistol?

Seems like a good thing but I have no real knowledge.

I don’t have a pistol with a rail, so would have to get one.

Lights, blinding lights, are a fantastic tactical advantage. Just don't mount one on the gun. Hold it in the other hand, away from you and the gun. People tend to shoot at the light.

[KFC911]

This applies to me ....

If my life is not in danger, I WILL hit the back door like Greg Allman...

I keep my 870 or Marlin (.357) handy due to 4 legged predators appearing at my back property line.

Both would be effective inside..... Deadly effective.

My 870 with a 19.5 bbl shoots Fiocchi 00 defensive loads in a football shape pattern at 10-30'

I can see inside my house at night, and have home couurt advantage.... I don't need a light to hit center mass of a person.

I've never kept my revolvers available.... I'd return to using my trusted .45 ACP Combat Commander before my 9mm.... Col. Cooper fan since the early 70s here .

I am such a light sleeper no one could ever catch me by surprise inside.

i have a great dawg that is even more alert, and even smells things I don't.

I am content with my choices.... but would always consider adding another puppy dawg to my aresenal .

I love these threads

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

If there's ever an intruder and you have the chance to engage or flee. Just slip out the back jack.

Don't go hunting in the house for them. It's not worth it. If you come home and they're in your house call the cops. Wait to have guys with bullet resistant vests to clear your house.

My two cents.

At 6am this morning I heard a noise, actually multiple noises from the back door. I was asleep on the living room couch and wife was in bedroom (no I'm not in trouble, back issues). So I couldn't slip out and leave her alone. Luckily there was a Glock 43 very nearby, I grabbed it and went looking.

It was the dog, again. He was trying to go outside and take a poop. But I could have sworn someone was trying to jack the backdoor or doggie door open.

Originally Posted by jyl

What do we think about lights on a home defense pistol?

.

I have one on a Glock 19. Its a bit heavy. But that is all relative to my daily carry which is smaller and lighter.

[matthewb0051]

G19 w light/laser plus a reload.

[Jim Bremner]

As to danger close gun fighting. I understand squeeze and fire. I recently re tested for my ccw. One guy with us was an Engineer, he shot a tight group I wasn't there for groups. I was there for firing as if my life depended on it. I qualified with five different guns in the same time he did with two. Primary gun is 72 rounds and others after that are 27 all of mine were in a shoe box size. At 3,5 & 7 yards. His was fist size. I can do the fist size. It's not realistic in a heartbeat of losing your life

[Rick Lee]

I can do half dollar groups at 7 yds all day long at the range. But that means nothing in a high stress scenario. Shoebox size groups at close range in high stress will do just fine.

[McLovin]

Follow up:

Been to the range with the GP100 a few times.

Fired both .38spl and 357. I don’t notice a huge difference in recoil between the 2. Some, for sure.

My impressions:

I couldn’t do half dollars at 7 yards without a lot more practice. Probably never could get to that!

It seems like plenty of power for a bedroom. It’s a bit on the heavy side.

Range practice is of course important, but a real life situation with a middle of the night intruder would bear almost no resemblance. I can see where it would be very, very easy to shoot and miss (multiple times) under those circumstances (dark, groggy, adrenaline, moving target, a few seconds to get oriented, etc). Actually, it seems like if you don’t hit on the first shot you’re probably in some trouble.

I think one of the best home defenses would be a first floor bedroom with a back door! Anything to avoid the confrontation would be highly preferred.

It’s certainly an imperfect last line of defense. You’d hope the other layers of home security, lighting, alarms, cameras etc is enough to deter. But if not, it gives some last ditch options and is better than being defenseless.

[Alan A]

Big fan of dogs.
Preferably big ones, but the noisy little yappers will do if you are actually home.
They give you time to wake up and grab a friend.

[jyl]

How motivated is the intruder in your house? The blast and flash of a 357 that just missed you would seem pretty de-motivating to wait around for the next one.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Big fan of dogs.
Preferably big ones, but the noisy little yappers will do if you are actually home.
.....

If ya don't have a dawg ..... practice barking with a deep, gruff tone ....

While lacing up yer running shoes

[masraum]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Follow up:

Been to the range with the GP100 a few times.

Fired both .38spl and 357. I don’t notice a huge difference in recoil between the 2. Some, for sure.

That's my experience from firing both from a S&W M27 w/6" barrel. The magnum round from such a heavy gun isn't that big a deal. If I was going to go through 300 rounds and could choose 38 or 357, I'd go with the 38, but the 357 isn't like those crazy videos that you see online (or the time that I fired a 454casull).

My impressions:

I couldn’t do half dollars at 7 yards without a lot more practice. Probably never could get to that!

It seems like plenty of power for a bedroom. It’s a bit on the heavy side.

Range practice is of course important, but a real life situation with a middle of the night intruder would bear almost no resemblance. I can see where it would be very, very easy to shoot and miss (multiple times) under those circumstances (dark, groggy, adrenaline, moving target, a few seconds to get oriented, etc).

This guy has a take on that thought that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure that most folks have a default response (fight, fly, freeze, whatever). And you're going to struggle to do anything that you haven't trained to the point that you can do something without thinking.

Actually, it seems like if you don’t hit on the first shot you’re probably in some trouble.

I think that's not necessarily the case. Based on videos that I've seen online, it seems like it's not unusual for perps to run when the lead starts flying. Yes, there are some that shoot back as well. I think most bad guys except for the worst of the worst that come from a very rough gang-like background are not interested in being shot. The folks that come from a gang background where they've been in shootouts are more troublesome, and probably have to be shot many times or mortally wounded before you stop them. Most burglars that sneak in in the dark are probably not interested in confrontation/conflict unless they have come in to rape/murder. And even those guys are probably mostly not interested or they wouldn't be sneaking in the dark. The ones that I'd be most worried about would kick the door in when all of the lights are on. And even some of the videos that I've seen of those show that as soon as the home owner starts firing, they push each other out of the way as they fight to run out the door.

On a related subject is this video. The guy doing the training was a cop (undercover NARC) and police trainer.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

I'll add: buy used and reduce your cost. Just do so at a gun store that has a gunsmith that actually tests the weapons prior to sale.

And exactly which gun store or smith in a store actually tests em???

[tabs]

Ruger has always made straight forward no frills medium priced spoons...

Ya want a bit of refinement Smith and Colt..

Ya want luxury Willi Korth or Manurhin..