I paid $3.77 for 93 at Sams this week.

$3.24/reg $4.24/prem here this am.

I agree that the numbers are not there…today. My point was that their strategy is a step in favor of future EV acceptance. Keep gas expensive and the calculus may look different a decade from now.

Down a bit over the last 2 weeks.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1717350645.jpg

Electric cars my ask. It's a simple formula - we react. No one in the US controls or manipulates big picture oil price.

OPEC is throttling back production and will through 2025. Prices will rise.

Are we going to argue or what?

Happy Monday!!

You won’t get any argument from me.
We don’t now and never can control the big oil picture. The only significant effect we can have on the global oil picture is through a drastic cut in consumption.

the incentive to keep gas prices high is profit, not EV adoption. if you think oil companies are keeping the price of oil high in order to drive you to buying an EV, i dont even have words to explain how dumb that is. that is a level of dumb i dont think any human could stoop to.

the only way public policy is going to drive oil prices down is nationalization. otherwise the oil companies, and the oil market, is going to drive to the highest price it can for profit. this is capitalism 101. there is no market incentive to keep gas cheaper than the highest price you are willing to pay at the pump to keep your ICE car.

ie, if you are a die hard ICE fanboi, your inelastic need for gas, is part of the reason why gas prices are high. your unwillingness to consider alternatives means they can keep charging you big money. because you have self-selected to need gas. those of us who are more flexible in our transportation and heating needs, and the threat of adoption of those technologies/lifestyles/habits, is the only pressure to keep prices low. or the threat of nationalization, which in the USA is politically unpopular, for what reason, i dont know, but it is.

TLDR: its a market, its works like a market. if you need it, they can charge more money for it. if you want cheap gas, look for alternatives, or nationalization. if you want expensive gas, then rely on it more.

Could you PLEASE not bring PARF attitude to PPOT? There are some interesting and important topics we could discuss here if we treat each other respectfully.
Thank you.

idk what to tell folks who think an oil company wants to force you to switch to an EV.

thats like thinking arbys wants you to eat vegan. or apple wants you to switch to android.

like, its nonsense. a 100% bad idea that has no place in any discussion.

lol, no argument here, you are 100% correct. Now go post that in PARF if you want some arguments! Many in there have some wild misconceptions about how oil markets work.

Gas prices aren't subject to just market forces; governments can exert a fair bit of influence over pump prices (IMHO more to raise prices than to reduce them). Regulatory restrictions, depleting the SPR, and -- most directly -- taxes are all government interventions into markets. For example (emphasis added):

"California’s prices are the highest in the country—$5.21 a gallon on average vs. $3.59 nationwide—owing to hefty taxes and burdensome regulations, such as its cap-and-trade program and low-carbon fuel standard. Here’s the rub: California refineries supply nearly 90% of Nevada’s gasoline and half of Arizona’s.

Mr. Newsom is escalating his war on the industry. The California Energy Commission is planning to impose a tax on refineries’ “gross margins”—i.e., the difference between wholesale gasoline and crude prices plus certain regulatory costs. The gross margin notably doesn’t include refiners’ operating costs, which include employee pay.

Mr. Newsom conflates profits and gross margins. According to the commission’s data, refiners lost between 10 and 38 cents on each gallon they produced from October 2023 through February 2024, while their gross margins ranged from 56 to 79 cents a gallon. In December, California refineries lost 31 cents a gallon while the state imposed $1.15 a gallon in taxes and regulatory fees.

The price gougers in Sacramento now want to penalize drivers even more. Mr. Newsom is pushing the commission to finalize the refinery tax at the same time as the California Air Resources Board, or CARB, prepares to tighten its low-carbon fuel standard and greenhouse-gas emissions cap. These regulations add about 54 cents to the price of each gallon of gasoline. CARB’s rules will increase the cost by an estimated 88 cents a gallon in 2026 and $1.01 by 2031."

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/california-governor-escalates-war-gasoline-impacting-neighboring-states

https://mishtalk.com/economics/california-governor-escalates-the-war-on-gasoline-impacting-neighboring-states/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gavin-newsoms-battleground-gift-to-donald-trump-281dc5ca

We're using this thread now?

Before Memorial day, reg was around $3.09/gal.
About a week before Memorial day, it went up to $3.24, then settled at $3.19.
Now here we are a week later, back down to $3.04.

Anyone been to a Love's gas station lately?
There's one on I-90 between La Crosse and Rochester, and we usually stop there. The last time I was there, no 87 octane E10. Just 88 E15, 89 E15, and 91 E10. There's a Sinclair on the other side of the interstate that matches their price and still has 87 E10, so I guess I'll be stopping there from now on.

the last thing an oil company wants to do is lower the price of oil, the second to last thing an oil company wants to do is pump more oil.

they love that you are mad at the government for this, instead of them. they love that you are cling to how critical oil is in your life, instead of finding alternatives. the love that you refuse to change. they love it, cause it makes them money.

this really isnt complicated or political. its just capitalism. they have you simping for them, while they laugh all the way to the bank.

Except for when it's not green grass and high tides (see what I did there?).

It gets pretty bleak after a couple years of a really depressed oil price.

Hard to feel sorry for big oil but the employees can get beat up really badly.

its a boom and bust industry for sure.

thats why they like the medium high, steady price and will use every market force they can to keep it that way.

Are you saying you aren’t capable of engaging in a respectful way?

The only reason OPEC+ can pull strings is because we choose to not produce enough inexpensively enough ourselves to keep prices low. Largely because our government gets in the way. Yes, it is a choice...both at the state and Federal level. Even certain cities and counties. Yes, the intent is to force electric cars on the populace by making gasoline automobile less affordable while subsidizing EVs. It is a poor plan that has been poorly executed.

You don't understand how oil in general, and types of oil is priced, bought and sold.

US leads global oil production for sixth straight year- EIA

By Reuters
March 11, 202412:16 PM EDTUpdated 3 months ago

March 11 (Reuters) - U.S. crude oil production lead global oil production for a sixth straight year, with a record breaking average production of 12.9 million barrels per day (bpd), the Energy Information Administration (EIA) said in a release on Monday.

In December, U.S. crude oil production hit a new monthly record high of over 13.3 million bpd, the agency said.

"The United States produced more crude oil than any nation at any time, according to our International Energy Statistics, for the past six years in a row," the EIA added.

The EIA says it is unlikely that the record will be broken by another country in the near term.

Elsewhere, Saudi Arabia's government in January ordered Aramco to halt its oil expansion plan and to target a maximum sustained production capacity of 12 million barrels per day (bpd), one million bpd below a target announced in 2020.

Global benchmark Brent fell on Monday, dipping below $82 a barrel, as persistent geopolitical concerns in the Middle East and Russia collide with jitters about softening demand in China.

You will also want to read this

OPEC+ extends deep oil production cuts into 2025

By Ahmad Ghaddar, Alex Lawler and Maha El Dahan
June 2, 20249:08 AM EDTUpdated an hour ago

LONDON/DUBAI, June 2 (Reuters) - OPEC+ agreed on Sunday to extend most of its deep oil output cuts for 2024 but to start phasing them out in 2025, as the group seeks to shore up the market amid tepid global demand growth, high interest rates and rising rival U.S. production.

Oil prices trade near $80 per barrel, below what many OPEC+ members need to balance their budget. Worries over slow demand growth in top oil importer China have weighed on prices alongside rising oil stocks in developed economies.

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries and allies led by Russia, together known as OPEC+, have made a series of deep output cuts since late 2022.

OPEC+ members are currently cutting output by a total of 5.86 million barrels per day (bpd), or about 5.7% of global demand.

The cuts include 2 million bpd by all OPEC+ members, the first round of voluntary cuts by nine members of 1.66 million bpd, and the second round of voluntary cuts by eight members of 2.2 million bpd.

OPEC+ extended the the first round of cuts until the end of 2025 from the end of 2024, the group said in a statement.

It also agreed to extend the third round of voluntary cuts into the third quarter of 2024, OPEC+ sources said, adding that more details were being worked out and would be announced on Sunday.

The countries which have made voluntary cuts in the second round are Algeria, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Oman, Russia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and Gabon. The same countries except Gabon participated in the third round.

The group also agreed to allocate the United Arab Emirates a higher production quota of 3.5 million bpd in 2025, up from the current level of 2.9 million.

OPEC+ also postponed the deadline for an independent assessment of its members' production capacities to the end of November 2025 from June 2024. The figures will be used as guidance for 2026 reference production levels.

OPEC+ will hold its next meeting on Dec. 1, 2024.[/QUOTE]

Of course I do. You just believe what you are told to believe. While we may be producing a record amount, it is obviously not enough to drive prices down or keep the world from being a hostage to OPEC+. We could produce a lot more. We could also make it a lot easier/cheaper to transport (by not stopping needed pipeline construction). We could control prices if we chose instead of OPEC+...many which are not our friends.

No, really, you need to do some research. I know SoL has explained the oil market to the Board many times, perhaps you haven't seen his posts but you would do well to look them up and educate yourself.

I have done plenty of research...and oil is just like any commodity.

I know that there are folks that post here that invest in the oil industry and high gasoline prices benefit them. They can "explain" the market all they want. It is not really convincing. An MBA, experience investing in commodities, and actually partial ownership in an oil/gas well (and the development of it to production) makes me as well qualified to discuss this as you or SOL. People explained the cool collar ad nauseum here as well. As an engineer that generally fixes his own things himself...I did not buy one of those either.

Folks also told me inflation was transitory...and was not occurring in places like the Boston area for some reason (and food was actually cheaper now) ...and that crime is down. I do not buy that either.

Here's a quick google search for you to start learning about how oil is sold.

how is oil sold

Not really. No single producer in the US can alter supply at a level that can meaningfully impact the global market. US oil producers make their own production decisions independently based on the economics of the company in question. There is no single entity producer in the US like OPEC that can make huge changes in production at will, and have markets respond accordingly. The US govt has very, very little control over the global price of crude. It goes way beyond just “producing” as well….you have to have the refinery capacity for the type of crude we are producing. Much of our refining is set up for heavy crude, while much of the new production in recent years has been light crude which we do not have the capacity to refine - hence the importing/exporting. It’s a lot more complicated than just “drill baby drill”.

^^^ good stuff. Wait until he finds out Saudi Arabia can pump and deliver a barrel of oil cheaper than the US can just pump it.

Well, he brought the cool collar into a discussion, so I at least give him forum props for that. :)

I can buy your assertion that no single producer can currently produce enough oil in the US to meaningfully impact the market...but they certainly could easily do so combined (and competing for market share) ...as the US has far more than other countries. Not price fixing like OPEC+...but just massive production and competition. The US government has tremendous influence on the price of oil...and the ability for drillers to drill/produce and refiners to add capacity (or not). As the US produces more and the excess drive prices down, folks like the House of Saud produce less to try to keep prices up (as noted in Shaun's post above). Also noted in Shaun's post above, OPEC only produces about 5.7% of global demand. So, what happens id=f the US increases production an equivalent of 10-15% of global demand? Suddenly OPEC has almost zero leverage.

There is only so much that they can do reduce global production (to inflate prices) if the US produce two barrels for every one OPEC chooses not to produce. Eventually, there is true competition worldwide as other oil producers will not hold the line like the wealthy Saudis (and they will produce above the OPEC agreements) or starve.

^^^your continued socialist tendencies of forcing oil companies to make less money so the masses can enjoy cheap gas are always entertaining.

What is your point? You just made the argument that OPEC+ was reducing production to raise prices. Why should anyone care how cheaply OPEC+ can produce their 5.7% of global demand if they restrict production to increase prices? It is not like they are selling it at cost.

Your continued communist tendencies to call for government control of oil production is telling. All I suggested was to reduce government interference in production (as oil producers have done) ...as was done just a few years ago (when gas was half the price it is now). More production does not necessarily equal less profit. While the commodity can be sold for less, a larger quantity can mean more profit. A win-win (for consumers and producers) and basic math (multiplication).

Again, learn how oil is bought and sold.

I am for market capitalism, which is how oil is bought and sold. Please learn how oil is bought and sold.

Long lost Cabmandone asked me to tell you bisches (that was my editorial addition - he actually said "guys") to " . . . focus! This is a diesel thread". Yer welcome!

You realize that the first result of your search was:

"Crude oil is traded in the futures markets. A futures contract is a standard contract to buy or sell a specific commodity of standardized quality at a certain date in the future..."

You did realize that commodity trading I referred to was "the futures market"...??? If you read what your Google search turned up, I would not have to explain this to you.

OK so you've realized you don't know how oil is bought and sold.

But you are learning.

That's a good first step.

Keep reading.

Tell him that nothing has changed. Prices ranged between $2 and $3 from 2014 to 2021...under multiple Presidents and multiple economies (much like inflation which was relatively benign). It only changed abruptly when how the nation approached oil and gas changed.

Yep. Reminds me of the recent thread where you claimed there was no inflation. Seriously?

Admitting defeat is fine, you are on your way to discovery, Bravo. You're like a moth just emerging from a chrysalis. Spread your wings and explore the world. When you can get to intelligently discussing OPEC+ and market manipulation as a threat to our national security, to say nothing of bad actor influencers like Putin and Xi, let me know next January or February. Be prepared to discuss the ramifications of moving away from oil for gas and into electric vehicles to remove threats to our economy and to our allies around the world.

LOL. Don't bet on it. If you do, don't bounce the check. Again.