Time To Buy PC Yet?

[tabs]

Hmmm...now let me think...Ahhhyah...you are a financial pro...so you should be rather up on what is happening in the macro economy...so you should know if this is a good time price wise to buy tech stuff...

The new report is an uptickin in headline inflation to 6.4%...but diggin into the weeds we come up with disinflation in TV's etc...Demand destruction in non essential consumer goods .but inflation is still runnin hot on those pesky things like food and other essentials..this btw for my nay slayers is exactly what I said would happen...

Givin that more than 1/2 of Americans are livin from pay check to paycheck and that they are usin the CC to make ends meet...what do ya think demand is going to be going forward on non essential stuff like PC', TV's and such?

Next stop for this train is the Big Bankruptcy...

Just think of it..a mfg ain't gona be producin nothin if he can't make a $...he will close up shop which is gona put all those little Chinese people outa of a job, where they get all upset an start causin trouble....which is gona be causin Ji to pull his hair out...which is gona cause him to become more aggressive.

Maybe Biden should be sendin out some more stim checks so we all can go down to Wally's and buy stuff from China.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by nota

I hate apple I could fix one if they did not think the wiring diagram was TOP SECRET
and every part random spec for apple only

Well of course their stuffs as proprietary as possible at the board level.

Using off the shelf easily reverse engineered components was the biggest mistake IBM ever made on par with bungling the license agreement for DOS.

Were it not for IBM then every other manufacturer would not exist or we'd have a 3rd competitive commercial OS if it didn't kill MSDOS outright.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Well of course their stuffs as proprietary as possible at the board level.

Using off the shelf easily reverse engineered components was the biggest mistake IBM ever made on par with bungling the license agreement for DOS.

Were it not for IBM then every other manufacturer would not exist or we'd have a 3rd competitive commercial OS if it didn't kill MSDOS outright.

I've enjoyed iphones for a while but hadn't used a mac computer for years. I assumed they must be pretty nice because so many pretty people had them at the coffee shops.

My job sent me a fancy thin macbook as my 'main computer', for logging in to corp stuff. It was a huge pos. Keyboard got so hot I literally couldn't type on it, fan running constantly. Wasn't linux, wasn't windows, stuff would sort of work until it ran into some low level incompatibility. The keyboard suxxord an thought the touch thing was a disaster. Device was pretty until you turned it on. Strange because they pretend to be about pragmatic usability, instead I saw principled design at the cost of the user.

I'm not a normal user but I thought it was bad even for just web and email. Now that I've had time with one I just can't understand mac lovers.

Edit: Listening to a mac lover is like hearing from a gambler about why gambling is fun.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Only good guys can use Apple laptops. The evil masterminds are not allowed by Apple to use Apple products so just generic PCs.

You may want to rethink that statement

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I've enjoyed iphones for a while but hadn't used a mac computer for years. I assumed they must be pretty nice because so many pretty people had them at the coffee shops.

My job sent me a fancy thin macbook as my 'main computer', for logging in to corp stuff. It was a huge pos. Keyboard got so hot I literally couldn't type on it, fan running constantly. Wasn't linux, wasn't windows, stuff would sort of work until it ran into some low level incompatibility. The keyboard suxxord an thought the touch thing was a disaster. Device was pretty until you turned it on. Strange because they pretend to be about pragmatic usability, instead I saw principled design at the cost of the user.

I'm not a normal user but I thought it was bad even for just web and email. Now that I've had time with one I just can't understand mac lovers.

Edit: Listening to a mac lover is like hearing from a gambler about why gambling is fun.

Well your experience sounds like you were running some piece of garbage software that had run away processes or you got a lemon which happens.

Or corporate put some junk device management on it because they don't trust their users.

Not Linux? I'm assuming you never fired up a terminal session or you would have known right away it's a .nix

Every SW engineer I onboard is given the choice of a Mac or Windows box. 9/10 pick the Mac. The ones who don't have never used a Mac.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Well your experience sounds like you were running some piece of garbage software that had run away processes or you got a lemon which happens.

Or corporate put some junk device management on it because they don't trust their users.

Not Linux? I'm assuming you never fired up a terminal session or you would have known right away it's a .nix

Every SW engineer I onboard is given the choice of a Mac or Windows box. 9/10 pick the Mac. The ones who don't have never used a Mac.

I've no idea what was wrong. I was driving an external 4k monitor so thinking it was just the gpu getting heat soaked.

I'm with you about all the kids wanting macbooks. Because its like straight out of the movies. I'm pretty sure now that its because they don't know any better. Everyone on my team thought the macbooks were dogs and had the same hot keyboard problem (again using external monitors.) What is the point of a modern laptop that can't even efficiently run an email client?

I owned a next through college, big fan of the idea of osx. I didn't say not unix. It is not linux meaning a bunch of standard linux stuff just doesn't work for weird bs linux reasons. I'm sure there's a way to get it to work but time is money. Either it just works or gtfo. Macs are a novelty for the computer illiterate. But again, I was shocked how bad it actually was.

I gave it six months then swapped it for a lenovo p15. Same use as macbook I'm just using it as a corporate terminal and have had zero issues.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I've no idea what was wrong. I was driving an external 4k monitor so thinking it was just the gpu getting heat soaked.

I'm with you about all the kids wanting macbooks. Because its like straight out of the movies. I'm pretty sure now that its because they don't know any better. Everyone on my team thought the macbooks were dogs and had the same hot keyboard problem (again using external monitors.) What is the point of a modern laptop that can't even efficiently run an email client?

I owned a next through college, big fan of the idea of osx. I didn't say not unix. It is not linux meaning a bunch of standard linux stuff just doesn't work for weird bs linux reasons. I'm sure there's a way to get it to work but time is money. Either it just works or gtfo. Macs are a novelty for the computer illiterate. But again, I was shocked how bad it actually was.

I gave it six months then swapped it for a lenovo p15. Same use as macbook I'm just using it as a corporate terminal and have had zero issues.

lol

You had one experience with a platform and all of the sudden you are on expert on it?

If your entire team had the same experience I can guarantee it was due to some device management corporate installed.

I've been in SW development 30+ years. I use all 3 OS's regularly and always have. I have owned literally every model of Mac made, desktops and laptops. I have never seen or heard of a situation like your team experienced. I think you are either being dramatic or as I said before, your corporate IT had no idea how to deal with Macs and sent you guys compromised boxes. Or you are FOS and just trolling.

Macs are for the computer illiterate? That is seriously the most uninformed thing I've ever heard and makes me question your legitimacy as a "power user". It's really a laughable position.

Don't blame the platform because you don't know how to use it which by your own admission, given your short lived experience, would be an accurate assumption.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by zakthor

....swapped it for a lenovo p15. Same use as macbook I'm just using it as a corporate terminal and have had zero issues.

Thats what your problem was.

Your companies endpoint solution for Macs was garbage.

Not surprising, most Enterprise solutions for Macs have always been junk.

Things L2TP/IPSec implementations in Enterprise solutions for Macs were always an afterthought with no real effort put into them.

It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

We don't think Macs perform well in Enterprise environments so we will put minimum effort into our Enterprise solution for them and when the device performs poorly due to our poor implementation we can say "see, it doesn't work so we were justified in not putting effort into making it work"

[john70t]

(just to keep all the Mac fanboys company)
Windows has been very busy hiding and/or removing all the most commonly-used menu commands provided by their latest forced updates.
Some words are changing over to icons.
But only on half the menu systems.
Want to move something from a folder? The folder you were using will automatically rearrange so you lose your place. This will not happen every single time. Only every 1/4 or 1/10th. Randomly.
Did Edge browser suddenly start? That's a feature. Try it out. It's collecting you browsing history anyways so you might as well.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

lol

You had one experience with a platform and all of the sudden you are on expert on it?

If your entire team had the same experience I can guarantee it was due to some device management corporate installed.

I've been in SW development 30+ years. I use all 3 OS's regularly and always have. I have owned literally every model of Mac made, desktops and laptops. I have never seen or heard of a situation like your team experienced. I think you are either being dramatic or as I said before, your corporate IT had no idea how to deal with Macs and sent you guys compromised boxes. Or you are FOS and just trolling.

Macs are for the computer illiterate? That is seriously the most uninformed thing I've ever heard and makes me question your legitimacy as a "power user". It's really a laughable position.

Don't blame the platform because you don't know how to use it which by your own admission, given your short lived experience, would be an accurate assumption.

Seriously? Thats the most uninformed thing you've ever read?

The new macbooks did look sweet. Keyboard action was awful. They run hot and are laggy, the rendering tears on the external screen. Need to buy special mac compatible keyboards and mice because of some usb latency issues on macbook. Yeah sure its not mac's fault that standard pc peripherals don't work well on it. Mac is a victim and its the user's fault.

The unix isn't linux and didn't support the stuff I needed to run locally. Running stuff locally required a bunch of half-ass mac specific hacks, and then no actual cuda. What exactly is there to love? Why would I go out on a limb to use this hot slow box?

Oh, its the bad corp bloatware that is ruining everything? Poor mac its a victim again because no one cares to do a good job on it? I'm seeing a trend.

Buy a pc laptop with a proper gpu and run actual linux on it. Boom. Everything just works. Or dual boot windows.

I will say: I got to play on an m1 recently and had no latency issues, response was screaming fast and its tiny. But arm based, inaccessible gpu, etc, its a giant time sink to port tools to it. Not something that helps me do my job but at least it didn't suck to run emacs and a web browser.

Other than its gorgeous aluminum case I seriously can't understand why anyone would defend the device I had (2019 macbook 16 with 5500 gpu). You say you owned one and it didn't suck?

[dad911]

If I had bought Apple stock instead of Apple computers back in the 80's and 90's.....

My most recent computer purchase was a mac mini, and it is now my favorite....

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Seriously? Thats the most uninformed thing you've ever read?

The new macbooks did look sweet. Keyboard action was awful. They run hot and are laggy, the rendering tears on the external screen. Need to buy special mac compatible keyboards and mice because of some usb latency issues on macbook. Yeah sure its not mac's fault that standard pc peripherals don't work well on it. Mac is a victim and its the user's fault.

The unix isn't linux and didn't support the stuff I needed to run locally. Running stuff locally required a bunch of half-ass mac specific hacks, and then no actual cuda. What exactly is there to love? Why would I go out on a limb to use this hot slow box?

Oh, its the bad corp bloatware that is ruining everything? Poor mac its a victim again because no one cares to do a good job on it? I'm seeing a trend.

Buy a pc laptop with a proper gpu and run actual linux on it. Boom. Everything just works. Or dual boot windows.

I will say: I got to play on an m1 recently and had no latency issues, response was screaming fast and its tiny. But arm based, inaccessible gpu, etc, its a giant time sink to port tools to it. Not something that helps me do my job but at least it didn't suck to run emacs and a web browser.

Other than its gorgeous aluminum case I seriously can't understand why anyone would defend the device I had (2019 macbook 16 with 5500 gpu). You say you owned one and it didn't suck?

Mac compatible mice and keyboards?

You're a moron and FOS.

[Sarc]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

You're a moron and FOS.

Curious, would you become so irritated as to say those words if you were having this conversation in person? I would say the Stomachmonkey of just a few years ago probably wouldn’t and he certainly wouldn’t say them in an internet thread. I only “know” you through your postings, which I used to look forward to but lately (say post ‘16 or ‘20) an edge has accompanied many of your posts. Maybe you have a sense of this? Whatever stresses and challenges you are handling in the real world, I hope you are equipped with the tools to manage and address them.

To digress, I can’t imagine a company like Apple could become so ubiquitous by producing crap. A highly loyal (cult-like some would say) following can’t be enough to support that kind of presence, so I’m sure they make good equipment but my experience in my studio has been quite negative-so much that more than a few of our designers (using sketchup, render software, CS, some cad, etc) like to say “Apple for show, PC for go” due to the instability we have experienced when trying to accomplish things on the Mac. No need to grill me for hardware and specs as I am blessed with a couple of 20-something tech ninjas that source the hardware and know what their doing.
That said, I don’t let that experience scare me away. I would always be open to checking one out, but as I’m very happy with our custom PCs, the Mac solution is not really on my radar.

Best

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Sarc

Curious, would you become so irritated as to say those words if you were having this conversation in person? I would say the Stomachmonkey of just a few years ago probably wouldn’t and he certainly wouldn’t say them in an internet thread. I only “know” you through your postings, which I used to look forward to but lately (say post ‘16 or ‘20) an edge has accompanied many of your posts. Maybe you have a sense of this? Whatever stresses and challenges you are handling in the real world, I hope you are equipped with the tools to manage and address them.


Best

Yeah i’m actually aware of it but being completely honest, as i’m getting older my patience and tolerance for ignorance and bull**** has waned.

There is an upside though. The amount of eye rolling i do these days has got my eyeballs totally jacked. Like i can crush rocks with these peepers.

Now get off my lawn.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Sarc

To digress, I can’t imagine a company like Apple could become so ubiquitous by producing crap…..

Based on the type of software you listed i’m not surprised that you may have had a lesser experience vs the same suites on Windows.

It’s a byproduct of market size.

Macs were not traditionally used in certain spaces and as a result some suites where not available on the platform.

Some publishers will dip a tie in the water but their OSX version would generally be lacking. It’s natural, you’ll want to see how you fair in a market before expending resources.

It’s not the hardware because if you dual booted the box and ran the Windows versions of those suites the issues would go away. It’s not OSX because often there was a Mac suite that accomplished the same thing and was also stable. But users coming from a Windows environment had to contend with navigating the Mac environment and where not going to look for a new app to learn when they had become so proficient in what they were currently using.

Autodesk has a few cross platform products that i’ve used in both OSX and Windows and there is often noticeable deficiencies in parts of the Mac offering. For 3ds max there is only Windows. If i need to work in Maya I use a Mac. Fusion 360 is garbage on both but marginally better on Windows.

I think the old everything’s a nail when all you have is a hammer applies here.

I’m a Mac fanboy and it’s my personal platform of choice but i’m equally comfortable in OSX, Windows and Linux and will use the platform best suited for a particular task.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Based on the type of software you listed i’m not surprised that you may have had a lesser experience vs the same suites on Windows.

It’s a byproduct of market size.

Macs were not traditionally used in certain spaces and as a result some suites where not available on the platform.

Some publishers will dip a tie in the water but their OSX version would generally be lacking. It’s natural, you’ll want to see how you fair in a market before expending resources.

It’s not the hardware because if you dual booted the box and ran the Windows versions of those suites the issues would go away. It’s not OSX because often there was a Mac suite that accomplished the same thing and was also stable. But users coming from a Windows environment had to contend with navigating the Mac environment and where not going to look for a new app to learn when they had become so proficient in what they were currently using.

Autodesk has a few cross platform products that i’ve used in both OSX and Windows and there is often noticeable deficiencies in parts of the Mac offering. For 3ds max there is only Windows. If i need to work in Maya I use a Mac. Fusion 360 is garbage on both but marginally better on Windows.

I think the old everything’s a nail when all you have is a hammer applies here.

I’m a Mac fanboy and it’s my personal platform of choice but i’m equally comfortable in OSX, Windows and Linux and will use the platform best suited for a particular task.

I didn't have a problem with 'apps', I'm a programmer. I really just needed a terminal that didn't piss me off and the laptop couldn't do that.

Osx is unix, it's got a great shell right there, boom first thing. My heart soared. But its not compatible enough with open source to be trustworthy. The compat issue was low level open source stuff that simply wouldn't run against osx. Unorthodox security stuff with half-assed workarounds I could try and use off github (and only partially worked.)

It was a bit frustrating that the machine learning packages couldn't run, again because what I want just works on linux and windows (rocm layer for cuda), but that wasn't essential, just felt strange that this device that is lauded and spec-capable ended up throwing so many barriers. Sure I can boot windows in a vm but... only virtual gpu access... and more latency. Clown show.

I totally agree, the specs for the macbook are fine, its a sweet gpu, better cpu than my own laptop, problem is something amiss in apple's drivers, especially video driver. I ended up having to periodically disable gpu acceleration for the web browser because of corruption on some large tables I needed to view.

Sure I think the ui is tedius and slow (a one button mouse?) but I hardly used it. I am still stunned by what an awful experience I had where I was actually expecting to be delighted.

The keyboard/mouse compat, thats again because the apple drivers didn't negotiate the right connections and fell back to some primitive standard that gave me keyboard lag and a slow polling mouse. Linux has zero issue because hardware is open and windows has drivers from the vendor. I bought different mouse and keyboard and they worked well (yay extra keyboards on my desk). Not having a separate keyboard was painful because I found the macbook keyboard to be remarkably bad to type on. Little hard square chicklets with no motion.

I'm certainly no uber fan of windows or linux but I thought the macbook was an extremely well advertised piece of crap. Literally no merits over the lenovo laptops which I actually LIKE. I've also preferred iphones for > a decade. I don't dislike apple just their desktop os really sucks. They've adopted another close box model and are screwing their users.

I spent six months tolerating that one device, waiting for its touch strip to start smoking it was so hot. Sure I've got 6 months of sample bias. I think Macbook is for people with an irrational love of apple or those who don't realize what ineptitude they're tolerating. My 80 year old mom has an ios laptop with a special apple compatible printer and she's fine with it, and I'm fine with that.

Anyway, I'm not bs-ing you and I honestly don't think apple computers are a sane buy for a serious user.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by jyl

Is this so cheap that I should pull the trigger?

IMO thats way-way too much for that.
if the money is burning a hole then go for it, if you want to stretch that dollar more, look at used PC, gamers sell them for nothing..

I have been buying used for the family and with a new fresh install of the OS nobody can tell they're not new.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by zakthor

......I honestly don't think apple computers are a sane buy for a serious user.

It's really hard to take anyone seriously who was using an at least decade old mouse with a new pc. Apple have not made a single button mouse for nearly 20 years now.

That comment, along with others you made, make it sound like all you are really doing is repeating stuff you've heard over the years which have not been true in a long time and most never really were. Maybe you are not doing that, but sure sounds like it.

I think Macbook is for people with an irrational love of apple or those who don't realize what ineptitude they're tolerating.

That is a staggeringly ignorant comment from someone whose issues seem to be the result of their own ineptitude in adapting to something new.

I don't doubt that you may have had a less than satisfying experience but based on what you keep posting, much of which is uninformed, I think it has more to do not so much with your lack of knowledge of the platform but rather your stubbornness in expecting everything to be the same and trying to force it to be when it wasn't rather than learning something new and adapting.